My Little Pony: Love is Magic” is a dating sim set in the colourful world of Equestria. You have woken up on the outskirts of Ponyville, without any memory of anything whatsoever. Along with the mane cast (and Princess Luna), you try to regain your memories, and maybe find some romance along the way...
This fall, take your first step into Ponyville with Love is Magic: Day 0, and see what the first encounters with the ponies of Ponyville will be like before the true beginning comes.
The game will feature the Mane six plus Luna as possible romances, and you’ll play as a colt. Currently there are no plans for a human version or a rule 34 version. However, we would like your opinion on the possibility of more features via poll.
We Want Talented Artists!
We need them right now, and we would love to have you on our team. Just send an email to [email protected]. Have it include your name, what or who you want to draw, and an example of your work. Plus, if you have a Deviant ART account, put it on your resume. If you don’t have one, make one.
Also, please note that if we are to add more characters we would probably need another writer. Contact us at [email protected] if interested.
Check out our Tumblr page for example art at: http://notmlpvn.tumblr.com
Our current team:
Musicians:
IvoryVinyl
Zorg
Writers:
achesst--Spike
Sergio Solorzano (BLAMEY0URFATE)--Twilight and Main character
Fleetwood Filterman--AppleJack
Spencer Baird--Rarity
Matthew Nunez (Rated-R PonyStar)--Luna
Brayden Zetuche--Pinkie Pie
Jeff Cimmino (GhettoGarden1)(Also team leader)--Fluttershy
Tyler Carson: Rainbow Dash
Programmer:
Emil Björnfot
Artists:
One Two
Rainbow Danish
313 comments:
Was it a game focused solely on romance?
ReplyDeleteWow. I'm gone for four hours and the conversation has turned into arguments again. Maybe "yelling" although it's hard to tell the tone of people on the internet.
ReplyDeleteThe people working on this have all ready stated that they are making a non explicit version of the game. This may also be the only version of the game and is what will come out first. You have your "censored" game, yet you still continue to yell at not just the people in the comments, but the makers of the game themselves? That's a bit silly, don't you think? Kind of like shooting the other side in a war after they've lost all ready.
In my opinion, I don't think the fan base has it bad, the show does. As much as the pony part of the show makes it so endearing, it also brings up an instant "taboo" alert in our heads as soon as anyone wants to put the characters in a more mature setting. This is also why anything "human in equestria" or "humanized ponies" ends up being hated immediately.
When I read a romance fic, I do it because I want to see the characters interact and grow. Watching the show, you grow attached to the character in some ways, like a friend. You want to be happy for your friend, you want them to find someone, fall in love, etc. I see no problem with this.
I can't talk for everyone who wants explicit versions or the like, but immediately calling them pedophiles and rapists just because they like a mature theme is a bit uncalled for. Not all people who supported the explicit content said they wanted to see ponies having sex. A few have stated they wanted to just have it implied and not shown.
Allowing us to continue after the dating phase and into the before marriage/after allows the characters to grow more.
Clannad comes to mind as a good example, going in depth into the part after you've dated makes the characters far more developed than just ending it after you've managed to get them to date you.
I'm not saying that I expect the makers to extend their end game if they don't want to, but this is what I think of when adding mature themes to this game. If they were to add in a sex scene, it wouldn't need to be "rule 34" I just want the ability to have the ponies relationship go past dating.
I'm running on four hours of sleep. If I manage to offend someone or leave some point out, then I'm sorry. If you point it out nicely, I'd be willing to apologize or clear it up. No need for shouting matches.
@Rated-R PonyStar and Jeff
ReplyDeleteI am excited for this game one the basis of desiring more content for the community to enjoy. That said, I just want to offer some advice to you and the rest of your creative team.
Remember what "Suited for Success" taught us. What you are offering us is the use of your talents in creating a grand gift. But that is EXACTLY what it is. A GIFT. And one that we have no right to be picky about when you are trying so hard to find a way to deliver us a quality game. So have fun with it, and make it the great game you think it can be. Don't allow yourself to be hampered by trying to make it perfect for everyone in the community. If you don't think it needs Rule 34, don't put it in. If you don't think it needs something else, don't bother trying to find a way to adapt it.
The point is, WE as the community have no right to criticize what has the potential to be a very worthwhile addition to the content of the community. You are willing to put your time and effort into making this game for enjoyment of us all, and for that we should be grateful.
So, thank you for being willing to do this even after all of the flak you have been receiving. I'm sure it will turn out fantastic.
~You rock. Woohoo.~
@Unknown
ReplyDeleteI hope they listen to you. I'd facehoof more at my comment taking so long to write that it wasn't really necessary for the most part, but you are right. Doesn't mean they shouldn't listen to the community, but we should also be happy with whatever they put out however they wish to make it.
@Unknown
ReplyDelete@Fallin' Winter
You know, I was thinking something similar, sort of.
So.. as Fallin' Winter (who I keep wanting to call Fimbulwinter >.>) says, I do hope they listen.
In the end, what gives these fan creations their worth is that people invested their creativity in them; it's the same reason I consider it so wrong to consider any of them, no matter their nature, somehow totally without value.
Buut.. by the same token, adding or removing any sort of content against the preference own creative drive.. I don't know, I'd sooner go with the overall decision of the creative team than have them bow to the opposing whims of the community and make a game that felt 'forced' in either regard. After all, that's the beauty of independent works and fanworks - freedom from the constraints of a project that has investors.
So... hm.
.. Bleh, I promised I'd stay out, too.. oh well, I suppose if a thought nagged me as much as the above, it was worth saying. Here's hoping it didn't come off as too massive a ramble.
@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteUgh. Relax. I checked it out on the word of one of my friends that it was relatively work safe. There's no explicit pictures and the only thing it does is link to clopfics.
And Seth just manages (or managed, it's dead now) Equestria Afterdark. There was a demand for clopfics, and Seth had to accommodate them without affecting the content of EqD. He doesn't clop to pastel coloured ponies, and his comments on the blog clearly indicate that.
...anyways, more on topic. I'm rather excited for this. I always like the idea of more pony media come in and I really dig visual novels.
@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteits funny you said perfect. you want this fandom to be 100% perfect right? well wake up dude. this fandom or any other fandoms won't be 100% perfect. deal with it. don't like rule 34 or furries, then too bad. forcing others from this fandom won't make this fandom perfect. idiot >_>
Will Spitfire be part of the game as well?
ReplyDelete@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteI'm done with your pretentious, self-righteous drivel. This is exactly the kind of holy roller nonsense I chose to leave behind. The mane 6 may display impulsive tendencies, which are behavior traits found in teens, because they live in that kind of impulsive, carefree cartoon. But that doesn't mean they're biologically immature. Not even Pinkie Pie acts like a preteen. Twilight and Rarity are most certainly young adults and Rainbow I'd place as high end adolescent. Who said anything about porno? It doesn't look like they're making that kind of game. I'm talking about romance. And to accuse supporters of enjoying child porn, an illegal medium, is madness and degrading. Who the hay do you think you are?
Oh, say, here's a thought.
ReplyDeleteHow mod-able will it be? It just occurred to me that if someone wanted to add new routes.. or perhaps more ambitiously, add a voice track..
@pmcollectorboy
ReplyDeleteI'm confident they're all 18-22 years of age, and about as mature as can be expected for that age group. As much as some of us like to think otherwise, people in that age group (myself included) aren't always that mature.
I think one of the reasons this show is so beloved by that age group is because we can easily see the mane 6 as peers. We can easily relate to them, and that's probably one of the bigger reasons this project exists. And I'm okay with that.
@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteThat doesn't really mean anything, furries will and have sexualized everything. Try not to confuse a niche of a niche for something other than it is.
@Jeff
This is a very odd thing to say. If you don't want to do something, then don't. Surely someone else will make it if it's popular enough. You shouldn't feel pressured into making something you don't want to by people you've never known, and your friends and coworkers should certainly respect you enough to accept your decision. "Green Isn't Your Color" did this well enough. Your friends won't want you to do something you don't like just to please them.
@Ace2401
ReplyDeleteSo you're just going to ignore the words of everyone who's worked on the show itself?
That the show has managed to attract an older audience is only a testament to the skill of those working on it, not proof of the maturity of the subjects and characters portrayed in it.
The truth about its appeal I think is that right now is a fairly shit time for men of that age group, and ponies provide an excellent, innocent, cheerful, well constructed escape. The evidence of that is all around us. This also handily explains why there's such vitriol in discussions about things that change its basic nature to please tiny portions of the fanbase.
@Anonymous
ReplyDeletePeople who want to see clop or r34 are not a "tiny" portion of the fanbase. The poll for this game clearly shows this. Get over it.
@Florentine
ReplyDeleteThe game is made with the Ren'Py visual novel engine. All script files will be 100% un-encoded and moddable.
You could even modify the game engine's python scripts if you want.
It's just like those horrible loli websites that say that all the characters are over 18.
ReplyDeleteFaust said that all the characters act like teens, and the mane reason they weren't was to handwave away the need for parents as a big role in the show.
Spike is a weird case. He seems to be mentally and emotionally mature as the mane 6, relatively, but not physically. I think this is due to the long life span of dragons. He has to take naps, and even though he's grown up with Twilight, a length of at least 10 years, he's still treated as a baby. Still, he seems to be emotionally and mentally mature. It makes sense, given that however slow they grow physically, people still continuously learn. He takes naps, but he's allowed to have the dragon equivalent of alcohol. He understands sarcasm and has some wit.
I'd treat him the same as the mane cast.
I still think that neglected the female audience, a good 20-30% of the fandom, is in bad taste. Sure, you don't really have many strong main characters that are male. You have Big Macintosh, Braeburn, Spike, and perhaps a few background ponies, but it's enough to go on.
When I play a reality simulator like Harvest Moon, it is expected that the girls get their fair share of romance options, same as the guys. The reasoning is simple: it's a roleplaying game, and many gamers are women. I don't feel like games should punish women just because they don't have a dick, especially role-playing games like this.
I would like to be able to romance guy characters as a guy as well, and I'd like the girls to have the same option, but I know that it isn't THAT important. Just moreso than putting in R34.
But don't half-ass it to placate everyone. If you just add one or two romance options for other genders or sexualities, it's still boring. You couldn't make a good romance game with only two characters, and that's what you're trying to do with only having that few options. Do it all the way or don't try.
You know, people are aroused by what they are aroused by. I know a girl victim of child molestation who likes loli art. As long as you don't hurt anyone, what happens in the privacy of your own hand is your own business.
@Emil Björnfot
ReplyDeleteAh o.o
Not that I have plans or anything, I admit, but it just strikes me as a nice possibility XD
Thanks.
@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteOh but it is tiny, and the poll most certainly does not show what you think it does. No legitimate scientific endeavors use such nonrandom polling because it simply is not a reliable measure of anything other than "the people who answered the poll". Even fully scientific random polling has issues with clarity and language that can skew the results, and keeping it as neutral and clear and reliable as possible is one of the most important aspects of polling and surveys as a means of measure.
A far better measure is relative number of works, for reasons I've discussed previously. In short, if there is a demand then the Internet will provide- and provide it has. To the tune of "less than 5% of total works are pornographic". On the Internet. The place everyone agrees will do its level best to pervert anything and everything, the best it gets is about 5%.
By the only reasonable measure I can think of, you're a tiny minority in the fandom.
@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteHey, all I'm saying is that I find the characters easy to relate to. That, and despite Lauren Faust's comment, I see the characters on a maturity level similar to my friends and I, as opposed to say, our younger siblings in the 12-18 range. I'm not exactly the first person to say that, either.
And yes, I think that's part of its appeal, keywords there being 'part of'. There's tons of reasons why this show is appealing, thanks to the many hard-working people that made the show awesome. How they characterized the characters is part of that.
@Jeff
ReplyDeleteI agree with those that say you should do what you want to do, not what you dislike. If you want to make a clean game, then do so and be proud of it. If you don't want to make an game with rule 34 in it, then by all means don't force yourself to just because the fans "demand" it.
Your "job" is to make stuff you enjoy and we're just lucky you're nice enough to share it. Whether or not we like it or not is our deal and it should be our problem. While I'm not saying to completely ignore the fans, don't feel pressured to change your project if you don't want to. When it all comes down to it, we only give suggestions, and that's all they will be.
Out of curiosity, did you really just mean "rule 34" in the poll which in my opinion is a bad choice of words unless you really only wanted to imply placing porn in the game instead of just a more mature route or with implied or actual sex scene in it?
That aside...
Where does everyone get this information? Other than that one time in the poll where it was sort of an option whether we read clopfics or something, where do people pull things like numbers or sizes of the "r34"/clopfics fanbase?
Even if there were polls or the fact that the pictures and such in question have few comments on them, I don't see how that proves anything. In a poll, asking that is like asking a child if they did drugs or committed a crime.
How many of them would say yes even if it was the truth when they know the bad connotations it implies. In short, not everyone is bold enough to answer accurately even in anonymity and so the fan-base may be bigger than a poll would say.
Even on pictures and otherwise, not everyone is willing to comment on them for the same reasons, that or they're there to "clop" not comment anyway.
With this said though, there's also not really a way of proving otherwise either, that there isn't a big fan-base.
If there is a way, then my mistake, but if there isn't, then pulling numbers like 5% or calling them "big", "small", etc. isn't really the truth when there's nothing backing it up. Even the poll for the game can't be completely accurate.
@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteROFL...you are trying to relate the total amount of porn on the net compared to non porn works and apply the same scaling to the amount of people in the pony fandom who want to see r34 of stuff from the fandom. I'm sorry, but your reasoning is just completely broken in every way, it is also completely broken with regards to all the people who want to see porn in general. Just because only 5 percent of *internet content* is porn, doesn't mean only 5 percent of *internet users* look at said porn you ignorant twat.
@Bashfluff
ReplyDeleteI agree with Bashfluff here on the point of neglecting female fans. A much better method of expanding your audience would simply be adding male romance options.
I disagree with calling Spike "mature", though- his episode revolved around him being entirely immature in the manner of a young child, granted with far better diction, but he's still a child.
It's a thing all of the main cast share, really. When confronted with something that calls their Cutie Mark into question, they don't deal with it gracefully or with maturity at all. Because they're lovably immature characters written for young girls.
@Ace2401
I think you're clearly ignoring their character flaws to make this claim. I personally have been inside the "Oh, X acts so mature" grouping, and it's just not true. The only difference between the ponies and even myself at that age is that I had vastly better diction than my peers so I simply APPEARED more mature. I still performed poorly when a situation called for actual maturity rather than a bit of intelligence and dressed-up language. I found it extremely difficult to act maturely in many of the same situations the ponies have been shown to act immaturely in, particularly regarding what I considered my greatest talents or favorite things, just as the ponies have been shown to.
It's certainly easy to do so, but try not to confuse a grasp of language and good acting for maturity. They're not really the same thing.
@Emil Björnfot
ReplyDeleteYay! Ren'py is awesome. With a little work, as long as you could understand how the script functioned and how you labeled all the character images, backgrounds, and music, you would be able to make your own additions to the stories etc. using the all ready built in character sprites and everything.
Not that it would be okay unless you all gave permission to do so. They are your works and all. If you did though, those wanting to make a version with extended routes or even sex scenes could somewhat easily do so themselves only needing to add in different scenes or backgrounds if there were any that weren't all ready in there.
Well, a lot of the characters act immature, particularly Pinkie Pie and Rainbow Dash. Spike's episode didn't exactly mean he was childish, but jealous. Plus, he can clearly do the human version of drinking.
ReplyDeleteThe characters all act immature, to some extent, and if they didn't need to handwave the parents thing, they would probably be late teens-young adults officially.
I don't really see the difference, then, between romancing Spike and romancing the mane cast.
But if you don't want to write 34 for him, don't. He's physically immature, however developed mentally and emotionally, so it would make sense that he couldn't do that sort of thing.
@Fallin' Winter
ReplyDeleteYou can get an idea of proportion by checking the naughty sites vs. the clean sites, or if you're feeling lazy by going to Ponibooru and counting the pages with filters on and filters off. Ponibooru is hosted by 413chan(a porn-happy site) and took most of its users from there, so it's unlikely that the proportion would be skewed to the low end of the spectrum.
Even a booru hosted by a porn site has this low a proportion of pornographic works to non-pornographic works. It's kind of odd.
@Anonymous
The view counts of EqD and the fapfic site(both run by the same person, both of which everyone in the fandom already knows about) support my conclusions, as I'm sure will any other impartial measure you care to suggest.
Pornography simply is not a major part of the fandom.
@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteIt's not so much that I think they're super mature, it's just that the way I see things, my age group isn't super mature either. I see the mane 6's maturity levels to range from 16-22, taking into account their flaws. Besides, everyone's (pony, human, or otherwise) maturity levels are liable to fluctuate given different circumstances, and maturity is really a subjective thing, anyway.
@Bashfluff
ReplyDeleteMr. Bashfluff, that what childish IS. It is a lack of emotional and mental development that allows him to think such a silly plan as ketchup and a fake mouse would evict his feathered nemesis, or for Pinky to think that because her friends were hiding something that they must not like her any more(without even asking them!), or for Applejack and Rarity to have such a childish fight during Twilight's first slumber party, etc
The entire show is based around problems they are too immature to handle easily, both for comedy and to teach the young girls the show is targeted at about how to(and not to) to be more mature.
Please, no Mr. Mr. Bashfluff is my dad. =p
ReplyDeleteSetting up someone for murder is immature?
We all have bouts of childishness, like AJ and Rarity when they fight, even though the are the most mature ones of the mane cast, but that doesn't mean they aren't emotionally or mentally developed.
Plus, Pinkie's issue seems to stem from much more serious issues than childishness.
@Bashfluff
ReplyDeleteYou said exactly what I'm trying to get at, probably much better than me. And yeah, I don't think Pinkie is childish, she's eccentric and probably a little crazy, lol.
But they DO handle situations themselves. That's the point of the show. Empowered characters. It's what separates this show from, say, Strawberry Shortcake where EVERY character has to go to Strawberry for answers. The characters are also old enough to adopt trades. They each run their own little outfits. Pinkie Pie most likely pays for rent at the Sugar Cube in the form of working for the Cakes. Rainbow Dash is a weather captain. I won't say the characters lack maturity. What simplistic behavior problems they exhibit is for the purposes of humor and the Aesop. But owning up to your mistakes is something all the characters have done and that DOES take maturity.
ReplyDeleteIt isn't that I think she isn't childish, because she is, but that doesn't mean that it's what defines her actions or her character in all situations.
ReplyDelete@Bashfluff
ReplyDeleteI think I'm the only one on the team who agrees with you about Spike, sadly.
Maybe I'll set up another poll about that...
@Bashfluff
ReplyDeleteWell, I think she's more eccentric than childish, but she's definitely the least mature of the whole group. It's pretty obvious in the context of the show that most of the time her character serves the rule of funny more than anything else. Although in Party of One, her actions are for sure pretty childish, but I think that's a symptom of CMIS, lol.
That's unfortunate.
ReplyDeleteStill, the mane characters aren't exactly ALL shining bastions of adulthood, so that argument is pretty invalid anyway. Plus, you don't even have to do 34 if he's not physically mature enough.
The show has too few male characters to restrict their use as romance options for such arbitrary, illogical, contradictory, hypocritical reasons.
@Ace2401
ReplyDeleteYou agree they're not mature, but you insist on treating them like are?
A more accurate 20-something would be mature enough to handle the interpersonal problems on the show with a much greater level of competence. More mature people are capable of dealing with these things quickly(eg a more mature Pinkie would have just asked her friends outright if they hated her, and the show would have ended much sooner), so to make up for it you'd have to toss more problems into the stories. Or change what those problems are, and leave behind the original formula.
It's a level of complexity the show doesn't have- but don't confuse complexity and quality. They are not the same thing.
@Bashfluff
Yes, it is childish. It's also a fake mouse- Spike's fear was that Twilight would find out he accidentally destroyed a book and would be evicted, so he tried to set up Owlowicious as having destroyed Opal's mouse so he'd get in trouble and ejected. It was childish.
It's difficult to argue that these are simply 'bouts' of childishness when these 'bouts' are the basis for the show.
Pinkie's problem is LOLRANDOM, but you can also say she's easily the most idealistic and forgiving of the group to explain much of her actions. Even "Party of One" wasn't bad, she was going through the good ol' "I didn't want those (friends/toy/etc) anyway >:(" phase in the decidedly Pinkie way of making new imaginary ones.
@pmcollectorboy
Yes, the characters learn and grow- to a point. No, HAVING A JOB is not a measure of maturity. Many young teens have jobs, it's not at all an indicator of maturity. There's a reason Pinkie made a big deal about being allowed to run the shop all by herself, and it's because it shows she's BECOMING mature enough to handle a greater level of responsibility. This doesn't mean she IS mature.
You're ignoring that, whether or not it's 'for comedy/the aesop', the characters must still be immature enough to act that way. You're essentially arguing that the writers compromised the character to make it work, whereas I am arguing that it IS the character that makes it work.
@Ace2401 above me:
Yeah, CMIS is one of the biggest tests of maturity there is. Can you deal gracefully with your greatest strength not being enough/being irrelevant/etc? If not, you still have work to do.
@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteCounting naughty sites vs clean sites does nothing. Why would you need more than one site to upload pictures/stories to?
Are you saying that filters on = explicit picture? or that filters on = Person who has filters off?
If we're just counting explicit pictures, that doesn't mean there are less people who look at it. That just means that less people are willing/able to draw explicit pictures and upload them.
Err... this is a funny dating sim and not a serious one, right?
ReplyDeleteActually, Spike was just worried about her reaction, but not necessarily that he would get evicted. He left because he thought he was being replaced, and that he thought Twilight didn't love him anymore.
ReplyDeleteNo matter how mature you are, we can all relate to feeling like that, however illogical.
He wanted to lash out out Owlowicious because he thought he was going to replace him in Twilight's heart. Nothing remotely immature about that.
An older version of Pinkie still would probably approach the problem the same way. I don't know many people who would approach the problem the way you would. Dealing with problems different ways doesn't make you immature.
This whole back and forth over how mentally mature the characters are is pointless. They are *fantasy cartoon characters* and can thus be as mature or as immature as WE the fans want them to be in our own fantasies about them whether they are shippy or not.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteHey, I haven't said anything one way or another concerning the game. I just figured I'd join this conversation about maturity, because frankly, I'm bored and I need stuff to do. My point is mostly that I see a decent mix of maturity and immaturity in the main six's personalities that I personally think that they can reasonably be considered young adults. I haven't said anything about how that would apply to the game.
As for my CMIS quip, I was jokingly saying that suffering it causes literal insanity, regardless of other factors.
Having a job and having a trade and being independent are not the same thing. Maybe Pinkie Pie has a "job", but Twilight, Rarity, Applejack, Fluttershy, and possibly even Rainbow Dash have trades. They're all independent and live on their own and what they do are their careers(although I have yet to see Twilight being an actual librarian), and I'm sure that if the laws of the cartoon universe in which they inhabit allowed for it, they'd probably pay for their own bills associated with their respective homes. I'm still convinced the characters are for all intents and purposes fully functional adults, Rarity especially. She's likely the oldest of the mane 6. What children we see are the CMC and Snips and Snails. And it's easy to identify them as kids. Even some of the competitors of the Young Fliers competition felt like younger teens to me than any of the mane 6 because of their mannerisms and the way they talked.
ReplyDeleteAnyway. This thread has spiraled off topic long enough. I'm done arguing this.
Anonymous at 5:56. First sane anon post I've seen all day. Possibly the first sane post period.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteI'm inclined to say you have a point, but it's rather fun to debate about this kind of stuff. And isn't fun why we are involved in this show and fandom to begin with?
Twilight is studying under Celestia, so she probably pays for her.
ReplyDeleteAnd--
This isn't even my point. My point is that it can be reasonably argued that not all of the mane 6 are legal adults, and you can argue that Spike is of a comparable maturity, so he should be a option for romance.
That's all.
@Fallin' Winter
ReplyDeleteYou should be counting content not sites.
I'm saying you can easily yous the filters to quickly, if roughly, count the amount of porn on ponibooru.
I've already addressed the drawbacks of the approach. You can use other impartial measures to back it up, for example the view counts of EqD vs EqNaughty.
That there are fewer willing to upload in this case does mean precisely that there are fewer people using it. The online world is largely anonymous, there is effectively no barrier besides the user's own interests. There's no person or persons in power holding back the porn on the Internet. What you see is what you get, its popularity measurable and quantifiable in objective ways.
Porn is simply not a major part of the fandom.
In addition, even if they were of age, they were only so because of handwaving a potential plothole.
ReplyDeleteIn this case, age really IS just a number.
@pmcollectorboy
ReplyDeleteThat's cultural bias at best. Paying bills isn't difficult, having a job isn't difficult, and none of it takes any maturity. Just a level of skill. I'm sure you as well as I can think of a great number of people who despite supporting themselves have not seemed to mature beyond high school.
@Anonymous
As technically correct as this post is, it handily misses the point of the discussion. It's not about whether they CAN be written as something else, but rather whether the show portrays them as that something.
@Ace2401
Fair enough.
@Bashfluff
Everything in the show constantly reminds us that Spike is a child. That he's got older, more mature friends doesn't make him an adult. It just means he's got older friends. Adding him as a romance option would necessitate writing him as, effectively, another character entirely. Which just makes me wonder "Why not have another character entirely?"
I'm quite frankly shocked of the large number of r34 votes, but well, I guess that's the internet.
ReplyDeleteHow, exactly? You need evidence to back up your point, as I have done with mine. How is he constantly portrayed as a child? Why would he need to be a different character JUST because he falls in love with someone?
ReplyDeleteYou seem to miss that Spike is capable of romance. He likes Rarity remember? EVERYONE is capable of loving someone else.
Some people are more mature mentally than others among their peers. One does need a certain amount of maturity to pay the bills and have a job. Enough to have a sense of responsibility, ability to manage money, and good work ethic.
ReplyDelete@Bashfluff
ReplyDeleteThank you!
It also seems that we're trying to quantify a qualitative element, that of maturity, and that everything is a black and white issue. Yes I'm well aware that in the real world there exist people who are still stuck in high school. Such people evidently don't succeed in various situations like what we see out of the show's character. Regardless of the sliding scale of maturity, it seems like many of us are trying to argue that the game is going to feature kiddie porn. It may as well turn out to be a clean game. Or it may only have implied actions. It also seems that there is an argument that the mane 6 are minors. Based on what standard?! I've seen nothing to suggest that the characters aren't modestly close enough to adults and thus not legally obliged the rights of certain actions, as within the probable rules of the fictional society in the cartoon universe, were these things even possible in said cartoon universe.
@Anon at 6:05
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm simply saying that there's a difference between amount of content and amount of people viewing said content. Just because an art gallery only has 20 pieces of art, doesn't mean that only 20 people have viewed it. There are those who only view said material while not actually contributing anything. Saying that for each piece of fanfiction one person reads fanfiction isn't really accurate, is it?
I never actually stated whether I thought the explicit content was a large part of the fandom, just that people who claim that it is or isn't, especially when throwing actual numbers around, are lying. I myself think that while not being majority, the number isn't exactly miniscule. Once again though, that does not matter because the actual number is unknown and is not really useable to validate an argument.
My point is:
ReplyDeleteIf you make the argument that immaturity = low age, so Spike is a child, you must also apply that same argument to the mane 6, who have been shown to be very immature at times.
Physical age or maturity does not equal mental maturity, which Spike has shown to be close to equal to the ponies. This is especially true given the long lives of dragons.
The mane six could have just as easily been minors, and probably would have been, if they didn't need to handwave away the parents.
Faust basically said this: Well, they think and act like teenagers, but we made them adults so that we didn't have to include the parents.
Why is porn of them okay, but of Spike is not? More importantly, why is a RELATIONSHIP between the mane character and Spike not okay?
@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteAs mention you have no rational basis for claiming that the amount of content accurately relates to the amount of people who actually view said content and pointing to EqNaughty as some sort of "impartial method", when it is just a single poorly designed and run blog which is rarely updates and only deals with clop fiction and not rule 34, is NOT in any way a valid means to support your assertions of rule 34 and the fandom as a whole.
You claim that there are "measurable and quantifiable ways" of supporting yourself but you have not provided anything of the sort. Your claims are just as baseless as ever.
@Bashfluff
ReplyDeleteMy evidence is the show, his actions in it. Go watch it. He has a crush on Rarity that he is unable to pursue because he lacks the maturity to do anything about it- constantly trying external methods(ex. facial hair) instead of attempting to woo her on his actual merits(which likely wouldn't work as that's funniest and teaches kids about handling romantic rejection).
It would have to be a different character because he's smitten with Rarity and clearly incapable of having such a relationship.
As for jobs, taking them as a part of an argument for maturity is reasonable, but holding it up as a main or even major reason for maturity is misguided. Decades ago it was not unusual for teens to move out of their parent's house with jobs in factories or farms and whatnot, but that doesn't mean that teens were more mature back then. Indeed, complaints about how the kids of today or yesterday are somehow worse than other eras have been found throughout all of recorded history and each time it's a bunch of crap.
Jobs are cultural and not a measure of maturity. Having the ability to deal gracefully with hardship is a trait borne of knowledge, experience and learning. What we see in the show is the process of maturation- of immature characters acting immaturely and learning not to, not mature characters interacting maturely.
@Fallin' Winter
On its own certainly, even despite my confidence in the market spawning enough artists/writers/etc to satisfy itself it's still why I compared EqD and EqNaughty view counts. The difference is extreme. Even if you suggest that everyone looks at it at some point specifically to use it, which I think is silly, it still shows that pornography is a nearly irrelevant part of things.
I did not intend to imply anything about your views, I simply intended to defend mine. I used "you" previously in the plural. Sorry about that.
@Icehawk
I did not say I have no rational basis for comparison. In fact my arguments here have been establishing that basis! The I used EqD and EqN as they are both the most popular sites for their respective "sides". Using BOTH is reasonable because it DOES give a(granted, limited) sense of what the fandom, as a whole, is doing- and generally speaking it's not fapfiction. Similarly, using Ponibooru(though slanted towards niche interests again) along with all other images, would give a good measure of the fandom's interests. And combining all of those would give a very clear picture of the fandom as a whole.
Using this poll alone is not reasonable because it is only a single data point and one that is inherently skewed towards niche interests.
If you're saying I'm a liar because I haven't given you the hard numbers and cited everything 100%, I guess I'll just have to accept that. I'm not interested enough in this to perform a fully scientific survey of every pony-related on the Internet. It'd take weeks and weeks and weeks.
@Bashfluff
My point is that they're immature, and that Spike in particular is shown to be in in the show. My point is that having Spike in the game as a romance option would be silly, because he's smitten with Rarity and you'd have to write him very out of character.
I have said that the relationship between Spike and the main cast is one of freindship, and that he's incapable of pursuing a romantic one with Rarity.
I made no mention of whether it was morally wrong as you appear to be implying. If not I apologize. My opinion on the matter is that writing them too far out of character(and a Spike romance in my opinion would be) just makes me wonder why one wouldn't write original characters in the first place.
WHAT?!?!
ReplyDeleteno rule 34? Dawww...
as long as its good tho. Make it real romantic pleaze! thanks.
...wow guys, really? This fanbase doesn't get enough hate outside that now we resort to attacking each other, saying who is and isn't a better fan, and calling each other pedos?
ReplyDeleteNo you wouldn't. A person doesn't stay in love with another forever. You could EASILY make a story where the characters attention, appreciation, and affection for Spike, along with Rarity just using him and having little affection for him at all romantically drives him away from her.
ReplyDeleteIt's been done, and it all wasn't OOC.
Spike hasn't outright said anything to Rarity regarding his crush, but that doesn't result from immaturity. Not telling a crush you like them, instead trying to impress them, it very common with people of many age groups.
Few people would just walk up to their crush and outright say they have a crush; they'd get to know their crush, spend time with them to develop a friendship, and then work up the courage to do so.
Spike's behavior results from an insecurity in himself, not immaturity.
How couldn't you make the same argument with Pinkie Pie? She HARDLY seems mature enough for a relationship, but it's in the game. Why? Solely because you HAVE to have the mane 6 in there.
ReplyDeleteTwilight is extremely inept at friendship, having to go so far as to learn about it. Do you think she is mature enough for a relationship?
Applejack, Rarity, Fluttershy, and Rainbow Dash all seem like they'd be able to handle it just fine, but those two? Not a snowball's chance in hell for Pinkie, with only slightly increased odds with Twilight.
My argument was with the devs who were making that argument that it would be CP. It wouldn't, because then you'd also have to make that argument with the mane cast.
ReplyDeleteThe way dragons age physically seems to be a slow process, but even though they called him a baby dragon, he seems to be only slightly below the ponies in maturity and general intelligence.
This is best rodeo I've ever seen. *popcorn*
ReplyDelete@Josh
ReplyDeleteThat only happened once or twice. A while back. Now we're just arguing for horseapples and grins.
I don't understand this discussion of age, maturity and legality.
ReplyDeleteThese characters aren't even real people.
@Fleymevas
ReplyDeleteDing ding ding.
I don't either. Limiting the romancable characters for males, which are already limited to what, three? Four, if you include Braeburn? It just seems like you'd be shooting yourself in the foot, and you'd only do it as a last resort, especially given the importance of the character.
ReplyDeleteJust seems silly to do for such a trivial reason.
@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteMore unsupported assumptions. There is no reason to assume that just because EqNaughty is run by Seth that it also must be considered "the most popular" site for its side. You are assuming that its lower view count is purely due to its clop content when there are a number of other reasons why it may not have as high a view count, such as poor and unappealing layout, a lack of good updates, and that there are plenty of other more appealing sources for the material. It is also again, just for clop *fiction* and not artwork which is what is being included in this discussion.
Oh and if you want another poll instead of just the one for this game, have a look at this poll which was conducted right from EqD's main page itself.
http://www.equestriadaily.com/2011/06/poll-results-what-part-of-friendship-is.html
34% of 4854 participants are in favor of clop of some sort. Thats two polls now of a very large sampling of random people that show your position to be incorrect. It doesn't have to be completely scientifically accurate, as you say, a generalized estimate is good enough and there are more hard numbers that are against your position in this case.
@Bashfluff
ReplyDeleteIt's part and parcel of puppy love, yes.
@Bashfluff
@Bashfluff
I didn't say you couldn't. My points were about how out of character it would seem for him in particular, at least to me.
I've just been avoiding the entire CP(or indeed moral) argument because I don't see how it wouldn't just anger people.
As for the "It's not real" argument, of course it isn't. That's not the point. You're reading a bunch of posts about maturity and character(and some other stuff), not about whether something that isn't even being produced could technically be illegal somewhere.
@Icehawk
You're using a polling system shown to be biased and unusable for useful purposes. These polls are certainly NOT a random sampling and cannot reasonably be construed as part of
The lower view count is because it is *less popular*. It is *less used*. Because as you admit, it is of *less interest*. The layouts are mostly the same, the content is whatever fapfics are around(in the same way EqD's content is whatever other fics are around) and yet still there is nothing close to the 30% those clearly unreliable polls show. If you think this somehow translates into a large portion of the fandom then I don't know what to say here besides "We'll have to agree that we disagree."
You have to use more than one at least semi-reliable data point to support yourself, which is why I pointed at other sites and things that DO include images and still do not have a noticeably high level of porn, and then backed THAT up with traffic levels.
You are misrepresenting me something fierce here.
It doesn't result from immaturity, though.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteAs fun as this is, it's getting old for me, and I think I'll end this as my last one.
I believe you misinterpreted me. I did not imply that "everyone" views the explicit material at some point. Simply that more than just the artist or author themselves view it.
For example (these numbers are completely made up) Out of 10 people, 3 of those people made a clopfic and/or an explicit picture. 6 of these people viewed said material. (this number includes the 3 who made the material) And the other 4 did not view and/or contribute to the clopfics or explicit pictures.
To make this as clear as possible (though mostly repeating what I've said above) While the numbers are made up, I'm just saying that while not everyone viewed the material, it was more than just the contributors, but a third party that only viewed it, separate from the contributors and those that did not involve themselves with it.
Also, yes, I do not believe it is majority as you've stated. I still like to think that it's still somewhere in the 30-25% range if not marginally higher.
@People working on the Dating Sim
I'll say this again because with all the debating going on, it's only been said maybe 2-3 times out of all of my posts:
Keep doing what you're doing. However you want to make your game, I support that and I can't wait to play it.
As much as I would like some sort of continuation past just dating, seeing something like Catherine where it's still possible to cheat after the fact and wind up with bad endings would be interesting, it's your game and as long as the story is good I'll be sure to play it.
Don't push yourselves to do something that feels uncomfortable to you. While listening to the fans is okay, turning what was supposed to be a fun project into torture for you can't be a good thing for the game or yourselves.
Good luck and I'm sorry for unintentionally taking part in turning your post into a giant debating ground.
@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteYou backed up ONE site with traffic levels anon, and it was not ponibooru, and it wouldn't matter one bit even if you did.
I clearly explained how the traffic levels for the one site you did give traffic for (EqNaughty) are not necessarily due to the CONTENT as you are claiming. Any misrepresentation here is purely your own.
The fact remains there is no one single central hub for both clopfiction AND R34 of pony that majority of the fandom gravitates too, it is all spread out throughout the internet and thus, using your method of trying to look at view counts of websites to derive even an estimate, is again, utterly useless even more so than any polling available.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIn the end anon, and I know you will probably just respond with yet another verbose wall of text running in circles so I will just preemptively bow out of this entertaining little exchange by saying that we will need to agree to disagree on the size of the fandom that follows clop and r34. I know that it isn't the majority, but it is certainly highter than the "5%" you originally claimed.
ReplyDeleteOh wow at the comments posted here.
ReplyDeleteI had no idea something like this would spawn a huge flame war.
To everypony still hating:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaH4wFL7P8c
MFW 275 Comments and Debate>
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nLhe2yj5fQ&feature=related
@Bashfluff
ReplyDeleteI'd say that it is, actually, but I'll concede it being just my opinion here.
@Fallin' Winter
It was more of a "even IF" sort of concession- the plural 'you' again- rather than attempting to that. Sorry for that.
In the interest of letting things go though, I'll just say I think that level of popularity would result in more content and more visible content than what there is.
@Icehawk
What you seem to be saying here is that EqN not having pictures accounts for something like a 70x difference in proportion of pageviews, if we use your number.
Though yes, I suppose we will simply have to disagree on the subject. At least until someone bothers to do a proper study.
@Anon
If you read the comments it's mostly disagreement between myself and some others on proportions and a discussion on maturity.
It's not really a "flame war" if neither side is indulging very much in vitriol. The worst you got was between Icehawk and I, and that was pretty low level at its worst.
It's all been rather mature here, really. Thank you all for that.
Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think that people of all ages/maturity can engage in puppy love, but that's just my opinion, brony.
ReplyDeleteYep, nothing wrong with a friendly debate, especially about ponies. Although, I offer my apologies to the makers of this game if they would have preferred this post hadn't become a debating ground.
ReplyDeleteHere's something I forgot to mention yesterday:
ReplyDeleteI believe miss Faust at one point stated that the ponies are based on the common character archetypes of romantic fiction, specifically heroines.
Not that I'm coming down on any side of the discussion with that.. 's just something that occurred in light of reading through.
But.. that said it looks like the discussion's over anyway. Probably for the best.
@Emil BjörnfotHaha. XD inte visste jag att du höll på med sånt. :P (Klart att jag ska spela det!) >_>
ReplyDeleteI think we've all got our opinions in.
ReplyDeleteI want them to not neglect the female audience and put in some male characters to romance, including Spike, as he is the most prominent and developed.
And if you DO decide for some LGBT choices, don't half-ass it. Go all the way, for both genders, or not at all.
Oh, good gracious. A MLP:FIM dating sim sounds cute, but only if you leave out the equine sex. Seriously, horse fucking is violent and ew and totally not something I would want to see my favorite ponies doing to each other.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteWe will definitely have at least one male character. Spike would be very good, but also cause controversy. Bis Mac is another good option.
You can romance ALL available characters, no matter if you play as male or female. It makes very much sense that everypony in Equestria is bisexual; in their wonderful utopia nopony would care about such a shallow thing as gender.
@Emil Björnfot
ReplyDelete. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . ,.-‘”. . . . . . . . . .``~.,
. . . . . . . .. . . . . .,.-”. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .“-.,
. . . . .. . . . . . ..,/. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ”:,
. . . . . . . .. .,?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\,
. . . . . . . . . /. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,}
. . . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`^`.}
. . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:”. . . ./
. . . . . . .?. . . __. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :`. . . ./
. . . . . . . /__.(. . .“~-,_. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`. . . .. ./
. . . . . . /(_. . ”~,_. . . ..“~,_. . . . . . . . . .,:`. . . . _/
. . . .. .{.._$;_. . .”=,_. . . .“-,_. . . ,.-~-,}, .~”; /. .. .}
. . .. . .((. . .*~_. . . .”=-._. . .“;,,./`. . /” . . . ./. .. ../
. . . .. . .\`~,. . ..“~.,. . . . . . . . . ..`. . .}. . . . . . ../
. . . . . .(. ..`=-,,. . . .`. . . . . . . . . . . ..(. . . ;_,,-”
. . . . . ../.`~,. . ..`-.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..\. . /\
. . . . . . \`~.*-,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..|,./.....\,__
,,_. . . . . }.>-._\. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|. . . . . . ..`=~-,
. .. `=~-,_\_. . . `\,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\
. . . . . . . . . .`=~-,,.\,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . `:,, . . . . . . . . . . . . . `\. . . . . . ..__
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .`=-,. . . . . . . . . .,%`>--==``
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _\. . . . . ._,-%. . . ..`
@Emil Björnfot
ReplyDeleteIf you guys do intend to add more than just the two male characters mentioned all ready, I would suggest taking it to the polls again and listing some of them along with the "other" option. That way, you can see who is the most popular ones are and then pick and choose from there.
I admit, playing as a filly dating colts would be a different and nice change of pace.
Since it's a dating sim, it feels slightly wrong not to include both a clean AND a 34 version of this.
ReplyDeleteIt's the whole spectrum of "dating" at all.
And male and female should both be options for romance. Never alienate potential audience members.
On to my personal feelings.. TRIXIE TRIXIE TRIXIE!
@Anonymous You sir are a douche and your opinion is invalid because your an anonymous jerkface
ReplyDeleteAlright i've been thinking.... when the internet gives you rule 34, don't search it up, make the internet... take the images back! GET MAD! I DON'T WANT YOUR FREAKY PORN PICTURES WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO WITH THESE? Demand to see the internet's manager, make the internet RUE THE DAY IT THOUGHT IT COULD RAPE YOUR CHILDHOOD. DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM???? I'M THE MAN WHO'S GOING TO SPAM YOUR INBOX... WITH THE PORN! I'M GOING TO GET MY NERDY FRIENDS TO INVENT A PROGRAM, THAT SPAMS YOUR INBOX!!!
ReplyDeleteOn top of that last note, i am fully against most of the sick things that rule 34 has produced, however, i still believe that there are different people on the internet with different opinions, and it would be stupid to assume otherwise. People are different, and will be different, that is what makes up our virtual world known as the internet. If people want a rule 34 version, and some people dont.... make 2 versions (if possible) to prevent the mental distress of some people...don't complain anout the internet and what you see on it, because there will ALWAYS be more f**ked up s**t than what you just saw (rule 36). I wholly support the rule 34 version due to other peoples preferences, if you dont like the way things are, too bad, it's the internet. Deal with it *puts on sunglasses*
ReplyDelete@Rarity-Fan
ReplyDelete"I don't know who you are so you are worthless."
@Maxin ludtke
"X will always exist. Don't resist it."
granted Maxin's has a billion times more merit than Rarity-fan's, it's still a poor defense of fetishizing a children's cartoon.
@BluePikmin27
ReplyDeleteDon't worry, we completely agree.
Also, people, stop replying to the haters. They'll find something better to do eventually.
This thread officially stopped at August 5, 3:52 PM.
ReplyDeleteEverypony else. . . just let it die already.
@Emil Björnfot
ReplyDeletePerhaps if you treated a subject as complex as sexuality with the gravitas it deserves you wouldn't have gotten a facepalm.
Hey I just thought of something. What about adding Gilda; that would be a very interesting and difficult option to pursue in the game.
ReplyDeletePsst! Guys!
ReplyDeletehttp://polldaddy.com/poll/5352674/
@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteSexuality is not complex - it's actually really simple!
Let's make a 2D graph that goes from -5 to 5 in both x and y.
http://i51.tinypic.com/2mz0ifb.jpg
You could simply take how much you "like"/"dislike" the same sex (x) and how much you "like"/"dislike" the other sex (y), and put those coordinates into the graph.
The blue zone is heterosexual, orange is homosexual, magenta is bisexual and green is asexual.
@Emil Björnfot
ReplyDeleteThis is adorably simple.
Any 18+ version is just gonna be porn.
I think that both would be good, so I vote for that. But if that doesn't happen, chalk up another vote for Spike. More development= more emotional investment.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I really like the idea of a love-struck character falling out of love because of the attentions of someone who actually likes him.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to see three male characters, because one is lacking, and two is just a little off. Three I think is perfectly rounded. I vote for Spike, Big Mac, and Caramel.
They have distinct enough personalities so that it could work.
@Bashfluff
ReplyDeleteThis game takes place years after season 1. Spike's crush on Rarity may have subsided.
And does Caramel really have a personality, at all? He doesn't have one line, is only mentioned once. If there has to be a third I vote for Braeburn.
...or Steven Magnet. FUCK YEAH!
@Bashfluff
ReplyDeleteThis game takes place years after season 1. Spike's crush on Rarity may have subsided.
And does Caramel really have a personality, at all? He doesn't have one line, is only mentioned once. If there has to be a third I vote for Braeburn.
...or Steven Magnet. FUCK YEAH!
Voted for Big Mac - because I think one could have more fun with Spike as a /well developed/ non-option. 'Only personal opinion, however.
ReplyDeleteThat said, if you lot do make him romancible .. then you have so got to have a scene where there's a big argument with Twilight about a relationship with him XD
this feels wrong
ReplyDeleteim happy because i know that i will be able te date rarity or fluttershy or pinkie pie
ReplyDeleteThis is relevant to my interests no matter the form it takes!
ReplyDeleteI'd rather enjoy as many versions/options as possible. So have at it as far as I'm concerned.
@Emil Björnfot
ReplyDeleteEither way, I still like the option of him over the others. Caramel has one line? How many does Big Mac have?
Like,what? Three?
@nathandash Sim stands for simulation, whomsoever asked said question...
ReplyDeleteWell that's nice.....here have wallet. : )
ReplyDeleteYAY
ReplyDeleteI'm honestly not [i]that[/i] into FiM, I prefere the old Gens (not that you can find any of it anymore ;^;) but I really love the idea of this, not because I really wanna be all up into ponies but because I really love dating sims
ReplyDeleteI'll play any dating sim as long as the characters are engaging and the story is fun/compelling/cute.
Shipping shipping shipping pleeeeeeeeeeeease!
ReplyDeleteAlmost a year and a half later... Still no dating Sim.
ReplyDelete@Josh but i wont to play sim date
ReplyDelete