Unfortunately, the lack of fighting in the griffon nation has created a huge boom in population, and the ponies need more troops to really relive the epic battles of old.
Grand Archwizard Trixie has come up with a solution: summon random sapient creatures from other dimensions and transform them into ponies! What could possibly go wrong? It is HER idea after all, and Trixie is infallible.
She is allowing you to choose a specific role for the war games:
Unicorn: The long range artillery and strategists of the battlefield. Unicorns are adept at all sorts of magic, be it supporting your fellow troops with deflection magic or attacking the enemy with (Non-lethal) telekenetic projectiles from afar.
Pegasus: Ruling the skies, the pegusai are the primary scouts of the Equestrian military. They also play the role of assassins, summoning waves of fog that allows them to delve deep into enemy territory, where the griffon leaders are easy targets of their trusty suction cup arrows and plastic throwing knives.
Earth Pony: What they lack in magic and aerial ability, they make up for in pure endurance. Earth ponies hold the front line against the griffon armada, and work as the primary siege force. They also have groups that hang outside the battle to supply all of the combatants with food and nutrients to keep going.
So, what type of pony do you choose?
Update: Added a poll!
702 comments:
Unicorns. Because telekinesis can be a substitute for both hands and wings. (If you can use telekinesis to lift other objects, then you can as well use it on yourself.)
ReplyDeleteSince finding MLP:FiM, I've always wanted to be a unicorn. It's a shame that I can't go up nearer to the front lines and launch rapid assaults of non-lethal projectiles...
ReplyDeleteUnicorn of course! Flight may be cool but Magic power is irresistible!
ReplyDeleteOver 10.000 extra soldiers! o.O
ReplyDeleteThe griffins stand no chance.^^;
If it weren't for the "non-lethal" magic, I'd definitely be a unicorn. But because of it I'd have to go Earth Pony. I may "die" but I'm taking many griffons with me!
ReplyDeleteAs I suspected, no one wants to be an earth pony..
ReplyDelete.which is why I picked Earth Pony :)
Earth Pony, because I knew you all would choose the other two, and would be overrun due to lack of front line troops.
ReplyDeleteGotta stay true to my roots: he who controls the sky, controls the battle. Pegasus FTW!!!
ReplyDeleteTrying to match the griffons in aerial combat, face to face and (metaphorically) man to man seems like suicide. They are bigger, stronger, and armed with talons and beaks because they are natural predators.
ReplyDeleteAn armored earth pony fist, unbreakable by anything but a concentrated head on attack, supported by magical firepower, is the only way to victory.
Trying to match the griffons in aerial combat, face to face and (metaphorically) man to man seems like suicide. They are bigger, stronger, and armed with talons and beaks because they are natural predators.
ReplyDeleteAn armored earth pony fist, unbreakable by anything but a concentrated head on attack, supported by magical firepower, is the only way to victory.
You can have your wings,
ReplyDeleteyou can have your magic,
but without earth ponies,
you got nothin'.
Earth pony all the way.
Given my main tactic of taking out as many as I can without major fuss, I'd have to go with Pegasus, for stealth/mid-range projectiles. Plus flying. I wanna fly.
ReplyDeleteHowever, Earth would be my second choice, because if an arrow/water balloon or two from afar is not enough, it's LEEROY JENKINS time. One foam sword held in mouth, one wiffle bat held in tail for unpredictability.
...would one of the earth pony regiments be led by Pinkie?
Flight, glorious flight, plus chance to see Derpy somehow, or strength plus chance to be in the same division as Pinkie and possibly witness the breakage of the fourth wall from the other side?
Dang.
On another note, even with the unbalanced division of army strength via voting, we do have what I'd assume to be a good amount of Earth ponies, and the sheer amount of pony brought to bear through this operation might be enough to win the war.
I'm still feeling that "why am I talking about ponies" reaction. It's hilarious. :D
Pegasus side for me!
ReplyDeletePegasus, because stealth missions make me squirm like a little pony in the Rainbow Dash fanclub.
ReplyDeleteThe unicorns sound like something out of The Witcher.
Gotta agree with the above commenters that we don't have enough earth ponies. Support and scouting is no good if the enemy can just waltz up to our headquarters and laugh at us while we starve.
ReplyDeleteI'm still going with Unicorn, though. I'm not physically fit enough to fight at the front, I've barely got any experience with gardening, and my short term memory isn't good enough for scouting.
Front line all the way, may not be the prettiest or with the most chance of 'surival' but it's essential to any war
ReplyDeleteI like how the poll is sitting at U 40%, P 40%, E 20% right now. Very balanced.
ReplyDelete@jrk08004
ReplyDeleteMore like suicidal. You all better be glad this is a MOCK battle, or Equestria would be in flames due to how dense most of you are.
Unicorns and Pegasi are SPECIALISTS, they're not hardcore combatants! They are few and elite, trained to do ONE job -very- well. An army of specialists is a -dead army-, and that's all we've got.
Look how few of you care about logistics, REAL tactics, and the value of soldiering. "Oh if I'm a Pegasus I can beat the griffons." "Oh, if I'm a unicorn I can make huge explosions and fly around." With no concept of the fact the flying forces of the griffons are 100% to our 40%, and each one of their griffons is worth two pegasi in the air if not more.
And don't get me started on how you all think that you'll be a quarter as powerful as Twilight Sparkle as a unicorn.
Earth Ponies are the way to go. Join us or the ponies will surely lose.
Pegasi Trooper at your orders, sir!
ReplyDeleteReady to fight some Gryffons. FOR EQUESTRIA!
Pegasus all the way. Aerial combat is for me.
ReplyDeleteMy OC is an Earth Pony, and I will stay as an Earth Pony. Pegasi and the ability to fly never interested me, and I honestly hate magic since well, alot of ponies go the distance and become as powerful as Twilight. So I'll stick with the basic and support those I can!
ReplyDeleteAfraid ter get yer hands/hoofs dirty? You ladies shoulda' oughta' know that earth ponies make great combat engineers too.
ReplyDeleteHoo wee, Imma erect suction dart sentries and pie dispensers!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete^ Ignore my lousy Dell Conagher impression. I just couldn't resist...
ReplyDeleteHow tempting it would be to say Pegasus, I have to go with an Earth Pony on this one. They must all have a buck that can snap necks if need be, though this is a friendly war.
ReplyDeleteearth pony, you need manly ponies to support the backbone of the army!
ReplyDeleteBeing a logistics person, i'm rollin with the earth ponies. lets get down and DIRTY and keep them supplies comin boys and gals!
ReplyDeleteEarth all the way. I. AM. WAR.
ReplyDeletebutbutbut.... my oc isn't a pony... >.>
ReplyDelete@Vieral
ReplyDeleteWhat is it?
Pegasus to be able to fly like a jet through the skies with rainbow dash would be super epic!!! ^.^
ReplyDeleteI say Pegasus because I want to fly like a jet take my opponents down and trying to fly fast like Rainbowdash.
ReplyDeletePegasus, because that should help me get over my fear of heights, also id love to walk on clouds
ReplyDeletePegasus, because that should help me get over my fear of heights, also id love to walk on clouds
ReplyDeleteThe Battle of January 2012 on Equestria Daily
ReplyDeleteWell, the mock-battle had to be based on something, right?
(PART 1)
1. In preparation for the incoming strike, Unicorns began setting up defensive wards, both around Earth Ponies and around important Medivac LZs, Depots, Supply lines, and other potential targets. Also, wards to resist against harsh weather/storms are put into place in all occupied friendly territory. (ground level)
2. Pegasi take position high above the cloud layer, whipping up a controlled storm to keep the bulk of Gryphon forces low-altitude. Making sure to spread their ranks, they cover as much ground-er-sky as possible.
3. Earth Ponies are heavily armored and armed with close-range weaponry. They take cover behind makeshift bunkers, but need little time to prepare defenses due to the Unicorn wards already in place.
4. The Griffon airforce is inbound, headed straight for Equestrian lines. Luckily for the Ponies, the feathered bastards brashly see themselves as physically stronger and militarily superior, so they don't have many doubts. While not worrying about the strategic outcome of the battle, they still take the time to make flanking maneuvers.
5. Unicorns begin bating Griffon forces with light AA spells, hoping to provoke a charge. Gryphons take their places around Pony territory, unable to climb higher due to storm.
6. Eventually, after the Griffon force has finished mocking the pony’s attempts to fight, all-the-while circling their troops around the campsite, they attack.
7. As they charge, Pegusi begin to rapidly lower the cloud-cover, utilizing lightning, hail, tornadoes, and their own hooves to tear apart Griffon lines. In their confusion, the Gryphons fly to the ground in order to regroup, as it is the only usable terrain in sight.
8. Earth ponies charge, protected by powerful armor and armed to the teeth. The already-stunned gryphons are slaughtered by the mass of metal and hooves. Unicorns fire from the side-lines, picking off stragglers and reinforcing damaged wards.
(PART 2)
ReplyDelete9. Gryphon reinforcements arrive, but at this time, all they see is a giant black stormcloud cover the Equestrian camp. With little knowledge of the conflict below, they are unsure how to act. So, they do what any natural griffon would do. CHARGE!
10. Griffon reinforcements charge in at ground-level, using the Pegasi clouds to their advantage. The counter-attack is massive, and much of the Earth Pony infantry is taken down. Wards are broken, along with the horns and wings of many-a-pony. Many of the Pegasi are also needed for Medivac, causing the cloud layer to thin. The Gryphons have won the day.
11. The Gryphons have currently taken the Equestrian camp, and are using it as a temporary headquarters from which to launch a sweep for surviving ponies. Gryphon forces are scattered, giving the Ponies a chance to sneak in. For the Ponies...they have an ace-in-the-hole. After retreating from the massive Gryphon charge, and setting up camp in a nearby low-lying mountain, they get a chance to regroup. Ponies begin to set up a massive distraction plan based around Illusion magic and cloud control.
12. The Unicorns launch their side of plan, creating a crazy display of fireworks and lightning in a clearing nearby the main camp. This draws all nearby Gryphon forces, causing them to end their hunt for surviving ponies.
13. At this time, Earth pony raiders launch a surprise attack on the Camp. They quickly dispatch the dwindling forces stationed there, taking back the land in the name of Equestria.
14. Now, it's the Pegasi's turn! As the Gryphon forces are massed in a single clump, distracted by the stealthy Unicorns, a Pegasi regiment, lead by a Sonic-Rainboom ready Pegasus, swoop down from the rear.
15. Sonic Rainboom! The massive explosion, powered by the dedication and passion of Ponykind, smashes the unsuspecting Gryphon troop. Nearly all are wiped out, and the stragglers are hunted down and eliminated.
16. Party time. Victoria pro Pulchellus Equus!
Pegasu so I can fly :)
ReplyDeleteI dont understand why so many people are picking pegasus. Im assuming that, like on earth, there wasnt just a nation, it was made through conflict, political or otherwise, so I would assume Griffons have anti-air procedures that were made to fight other griffons, and modified against pegasuses; making it easy to be trained. Also, If pegasi have to use fog as cover, wouldn't that be pretty noticeable? And since im not much of a tactician, I choose Earth Ponies for being the counter to a griffon attack, while the pegasus are more defensive during a situation against other flying targets. Heed my words fellow ponies, choose wisely. A military cant be built on assassins.
ReplyDelete@Topyka
ReplyDeleteAn interesting idea. However, even if the Gryphons possessed an effective countermeasure to provide air-superiority, Pegusi still have the upper hoof. Remember that, due to their physical disadvantages and, to your point, tactical disadvantages, they are forced to rely on different means of assault. Honestly, the cover of clouds, storms, and the like is nearly unmatched in terms of protective value. Even if you don't have good camouflage skills, how hard is it to blend in with clouds? And even if a Pegasi were spotted, I tend to doubt the effectiveness of an anti-air weapon against a spread-out formation of semi-hidden Pegasi. You see, a quick change in wind currents/direction and you can scatter a line of Griffon flyers. Also, the use of lightning, whirlwinds, and tornadoes cast from hidden locations would quickly outmatch conventional air-to-air weaponry. As you can see, despite the words of the Admin, a Pegasus force could use an "assassin" build for an incredible variety of scenarios.
Also, think of the maneuvers pulled off by Rainbow Dash during the show. Unless these are specific to RD herself, everything from the "buccaneer blaze" to the "Sonic Rainboom" could quickly be weaponized and used to great effect.
Using your own words, choose wisely. All three pony races would be quite effective, but the Pegasi are probably the best strategic choice for the battle. With their combined mastery of weather, speed, areal maneuvers, and stealth, along with the fact that they are facing a flying opponent, they would undoubtedly be the most valuable asset in the battle.
That's not saying I'd choose to be a Pegasi, but in the end, their fate would determine the outcome of the battle.
Unicorn FTW! Telekinesis would be so boss.
ReplyDelete@Rain
ReplyDeleteNever reference the Mane Six as to what we're supposed to be capable of in terms of special attacks and magic.
In any case, the battle does not rest on the wings of the Pegasi. At least not in bulk. In surgical strikes, quite possibly so.
Remember, any dodgy and finesse-based formation and series of attacks is vulnerable to overwhelming force and numbers. Something the griffons possess in spades. As I stated before, 40% of our forces are flight-capable, and being as they're all trained to be assassins and scouts, they're not exactly hardy or highly capable at sustained air-to-air combat.
That said, the griffons are. They outmatch pegasi in every way but weather control, which, as also natural-born fliers, they can navigate unless it's enormously oppressive. Like all pegasi forces creating such unfavorable conditions as to keep the griffon wings pressed low to the ground.
Anything the Pegasi and Unicorns can do, the Earth Ponies can accomplish in another way. They're also better fighters overall. They should also be our most numerous forces. Instead, all we have are scouts and 'strategists'. Being good at LoL or Starcraft does NOT a wartime strategist make. The fact you continually add to the numbers of Unicorns shows you have no appreciation for logistics, people.
Let's get with the program, and bolster the main fighting force properly. We -can- beat the griffons, but the rest of you seem to be leaving out too many details in favor of prioritizing what you like, in hopes to make it sound more like it has a better chance of winning by itself.
And before anyone tries to turn that back on me, my own OC is a unicorn who specializes in light-based magic. But I'm still rolling Earth Pony for this.
-puts on Commissar hat- You should take my advice to heart, bronies. For I have the biggest hat on the battlefield.
@epicdarkwizard12 TOO MANY LITTLE PONIES ON THIS TEAM!
ReplyDeleteearth, mostly because i'm not creative enough for a unicorn, or agile enough for a Pegasus
however, i have a weird lucky streak, and great ability to anticipate attacks in combat, as well as being able guess where they are most vulnerable, all of which could be attributed to something like what pinkie does, if alot more subtle (i play various games, from fencing, to nerf, to medieval re-creation).
unicorns can use spells to create wings :)
ReplyDelete@Kayriel
ReplyDeleteWell remember, the moves of Rainbow Dash are pretty much all we have to draw on in terms of Pegasi Areal maneuvers, so I decided to specify that "Unless these [moves] are specific to RD herself, [then they would be invaluable]."
Yes, the battle rides on a combined effort of all three races. But, as I have explained, without the skills on the Pegasi, enemy air-domination would spell doom for all of us. Keep in mind how important this simple factor has been in pervious battles, and remember that a military force without sufficient areal dominance, along with medivac availability, will quickly fall to a legion of smart, fast, and powerful soldiers that can operate on both land and ground. Even if the ground army itself were composed of Twilight Sparkles, the Ponies would have quite the hard time winning the fight.
You have to remember that the Pegasi have multiple roles. The Admin suggested that the Pegusi play the roll as assassins or scouts, but this does not restrict the overall usefulness of the Pegasi's weather-based magic. 40% of us are Pegasi, but that does not plaster us as the roll of "assassin" in the same way that it does not plaster Unicorns with the roll of "tactician". For instance, I see nothing wrong with having an Earth Pony as a commander. The Admin was simply providing guidelines that are to be built upon.
Yes, the Griffons are faster, stronger, and more physically adept than the Pegasi. But that's not what the Pegasi's overall strategy would provide. Keep the Pegasi hidden in the clouds until the Griffons take the bate of a simple, straight-forward fought battle. Abuse the magic of the Unicorn! Make a flashy show of magic to bate in the Griffons. For remember, Griffon forces would most likely fear the magic of the Unicorn, for it is the only skill they lack.
Griffons are stronger than Earth Ponies, and faster than Pegusi. Weather control has always been a mundane and everyday task...something the Gryphons might not fear in the face of "mysterious" Unicorn Magic.
*Opens the Art of War*
“Engage people with what they expect; it is what they are able to discern and confirms their projections. It settles them into predictable patterns of response, occupying their minds while you wait for the extraordinary moment — that which they cannot anticipate.”
@Kayriel
ReplyDeleteReady my battle-summary idea a few comments up. In this, the Pegasi make up for their lack of physical strength with the very power of the sky itself. You must remember to take environment into account at all times. The cover of a storefront can prove stronger than any pony-made fortress. And once you
Surgical strikes are the way you take down foes that are bigger, stronger, and faster than you.
*Opens Art of War Again*
In the words of Sun-Tzu:
"In conflict, direct confrontation will lead to engagement and surprise will lead to victory."
"Those who are skilled in producing surprises will win. Such tacticians are as versatile as the changes in haven and earth."
"In directing a conflict, there is only ambush or direct confrontation. Yet their combinations produce a variation of possible battle plans."
" A sudden force can move boulders like charging waters. Perfect timing allows an eagle to pounce on its prey for the kill."
" Skillfulness in moving an opponent comes from positioning the opponent that is compelled to follow and gifts for the opponent that is compelled to take."
Hyper-overanalyzing a kid's show.
ReplyDeleteDont ya love the internet?
I'd want to be a Earth Pony Comando. Be on the front lines and really mix it up with the enemy. Fighting up close and personal, tooth and hoof, thats how a real warrior fights.
ReplyDeleteFor pretend of course.
Personally, if forced to choose - Earth Pony. Either for the front-line stamina, or for the supply-line necessity.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I'd like to point out that in some ways, using our Pegasi the way we are is a bit of a waste, especially given the points brought up about facing a 100% aerial force. We've been told that Pegasi are scouts, and weather manipulators. We've been told that Earth Ponies, on the ground, can't really compete.
So assign, please about five good Pegasi, and one or two Unicorns, to a group of 20-25 Earth Ponies. The unicorns should be trained in flash-bang production (bright lights and sound, not necessarily damaging), and the Pegasi should all be trained in one specific move Rainbow Dash has demonstrated.
No, not the Rainboom. What I'm thinking of is much simpler, and should be relatively easy for any pegasus with a good (not superior, merely good) speed and cornering ability.
I'm thinking of the Rain Blow Dry (or however you spell that).
The battle plan for such units should be as thus: on engaging an enemy wing, the unicorns play MCM (Magical Counter-Measures) with their flash-bangs. Their only purpose here is to keep the Griffon forces distracted and, if possible, disoriented. Each of them should also have at least one Earth Pony bodyguard, two for preference, as a defense.
The Unicorns distraction will allow the Pegasi to go airborne, and begin working on RBD generation. Sure, others have spoken of using the weather as a weapon, but no one seems to have considered this: several people have mentioned that this is a pure airborne enemy - and we have units that can generate turbulence to order. Against an aerial force, that's almost as good a weapon as any normal AA unit - and if lightning is forbidden, one of the best possible weapons general pegasi have. Combine that with the potential for disorientation from the Unicorn MCM, and you've got a good chance of grounding those enemy flyers, through dizziness if nothing else.
And once they're on the ground, their tailfeathers belong to the remaining Earth Pony forces.
Earth. Strength, endurance, and friendship will see us through.
ReplyDeleteUNICORNS!
ReplyDeleteThen I can do what I do now, assault others with non-lethal ( scientifically proven, although others would protest ) fumes to disturb and drive the enemy back. Plus, I won't have to deal with the discomfort of a lot of baked beans this time!
Of course I will cats a spell upon my fellow ponies to make them immune to its disorienting effects. Silence can be deadly!
They will never see it, or me, coming! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!
I love how the Earth Ponies are just cannon fodder ;D
ReplyDeletebecause the poll is down and I'm late to the party:
ReplyDeleteUNICORN! MAGIC ALL THE THINGS!
@Rain
ReplyDeleteWhile I generally agree with what you're saying, we have to have a core set to expand off of for a mock battle. We -could- have unicorn supply experts, pegasi medics, and earth pony artillery, but that's not where their natural racial talents lie, so are not likely to be hoof-picked into such generalized roles.
So we've got to work with the guidelines to have any sort of idea of how to partition our forces and make best use of the synergy between the newly-pressed units.
And I never said that Pegasi aren't important, I even praised their skills for the use in the battle.
What you're overlooking my saying is that we have too many people going I'M A UNICORN SO I'M LIKE TWO TWILIGHT SPARKLES, and the inevitable I'M GONNA MAKE SOME RAINBOOMS AS A PEGASUS.
That's just flippant Mary Sue-ism, no hint of tactical consideration at all. Something we should be looking to oust as a general thought pattern. A thought pattern that has left the predefined roles grossly unbalanced.
Beyond that, Earth Ponies are presumed to be the most numerous of all ponies, period. Look at the Pegasus capitol of Cloudsdale. Wasn't exactly teeming. Canterlot is the assumed capitol for Unicorns, good number of unicorns, but plenty others as the nation's capitol. All in all, Earth Ponies are the hardiest, healthiest, and most in-tune with the natural world. Not to mention they seem best suited to becoming farmers, which means it's each generation's duty to have a sizable number of foals to aid with tending the farm as they grow.
Yet our strongest and most flexible force, even though being the most populous, has the LEAST representation in our forces. While the more physically frail and more uncommon ponies make up something like 80 flippin' percent. It's madness.
pegasus
ReplyDeletecarpet bombing with water balloons
I find it ironic that earth ponies are the front line armies for this war when the enemy is primarily airborne.
ReplyDeletePegasus Aeriel Unit Lightning Blitz, reporting for duty, sir!
Also, if earth ponies are so common in Equestria, do they really need us to augment their numbers that much?
ReplyDelete@Tjprower
ReplyDeleteI'm gonna go out on a limb and say you didn't understand any of what I said.
For one, a frontline soldier is one that can match his opposite number. Griffon are better combatants than Pegasi. The proper strategy to use is have a large force of Pegasus manipulating the air currents to force most of the griffons to land, with air support to take down any who try to brave the dangerous skies. This also keeps them from being able to go after any scouts/assassins the pegasus forces deploy.
Now, beyond that, it's not that Earth Ponies are numerous in number so much as they should represent the largest numbers OF PONIES. If there's 10,000 griffons and 5,000 ponies, let's say, then 10,000 of those are still griffons, but earth ponies should be about 2,000 of those 5,000 ponies due to hale nature and need for increased families.
Mind you these numbers are just an arbitrary example, but you should get the idea. Earth Ponies by all sense make up the largest percentage of Equestrians.
We need to be using the natural talents of each kind of pony to support one another, here, which means if we have too much of one kind or another, including earth ponies which we should have the most of, then our war efforts will essentially be doomed to failure.
At the rate things stand now, the only thing that can save us is if Twilight Sparkle's horn becomes the drill that will pierce the heavens and we're all suddenly blessed with Spiral Energy.
@Kayriel
ReplyDeleteWell, that may be true, but as the natural occupation for a Pegasus in Equestria seems to be weather control, rather than stealth, would it not be more effective to pursuit a different roll? Yes, I'm sure that there are rolls more suitable to a Pegasi than medic, or artillery, but in my previous comment, I was noting upon the slight inaccuracy of the guidelines in terms of over-all effectiveness. As long as we hold on to a strategy, we don't have to worry much about synergy. We're ponies, remember?
And I never said that you said that Pegasi weren't important. I was just noting that, infact, they were of more use than an Earth pony against a Griffon offense. I found that you were disregarding the importance of air superiority, the value of surprise, and the power of weather control. And we have all three in one package!
We don't need every Pegasus doing Sonic Rainbooms, or that Lesson-Zero style rainbow nuke. As I have said, the other advantages of having a weather-controlling airborne soldier are what make Pegasi the best bet. Remember that, due to the nature of roll-playing, Mary Sue-ism is unavoidable. Though, also note that this isn't quite a roleplay, as we are simply voting for our personal preference when becoming pony-fied. As long as we have charismatic and intelligent commanders monitoring the situation from behind the lines, I wouldn't worry about much. Strategy, in the end, is what wins wars.
Also, note that the population ratios don't mean anything in this situation. Sure, in a normal confrontation, Pegasi may be less common on the battlefield, granting them more specialized roles. However, this is a situation in which we humans are drafted in as various subspecies of ponies, we don't have to worry about this factor at all. Also, we can't deem the Earth Ponies as "Most in-tune with the natural world". They are, as stated in the show, most in-tune with the land. On the other hoof, the Pegasus are, like the Gryphon, more in-tune with the sky.
Earth Ponies are not our "most flexible force". There is a reason that they represent the smallest percentile, as they, while having other values outside of combat, would have little value when brought up against an entirely airborne force. You see, while it would be difficult, the Pegasi could win the battle alone. Perhaps, if they had the right spellcraft, so could the Unicorns. But the Earth Ponies, if they can't somehow convince the Gryphons to ground themselves, would have to rely on supernatural forces in order to even fight the Gryphons. And even if they did get them on the ground, the Gryphons are still tougher, stronger, and faster than even the Earth Ponies. So really, it's not much of a fair fight.
Also, a large part of your argument revolves around the factor that Earth Ponies are "physically stronger". While this may be true in the case of characters like Applejack, you can't substitute her personal strength as an ability for all other Earth Ponies. Because remember, as Rainbow Dash is a powerful flyer, and Twilight Sparkle is a powerful magician, Applejack is a powerful farmer with abnormal bucking prowess. So, by your own logic, I think you might want to stop overestimating the strength of the common Earth Pony. They are good at farming, and a few of them are quite strong, and even those don't paint a "physically frail" picture of the other ponies.
Pegasus is my choice.
ReplyDeleteI will become a pegasus then.
ReplyDelete@Rain
ReplyDeleteYou've obviously missed what I've said in the last several posts. Please don't reply unless you've bothered actually reading what I've said.
Rather than restate it for the fourth or fifth time, I respectfully ask you to give it a thorough reading.
On top of that, I'm basing nothing on Applejack or Big Macintosh, but rather that as presented and by logical inference thereof, an Earth Pony is going to be stronger than a unicorn or a pegasus. Pegasi bodies are light, flexible. They have to be in order to fly as they do.
Unicorns use their magic for just about everything. And always have for the most part.
Earth Ponies have had to rely on their muscles and stature even before Equestria's founding. Part of why the description above states they have greater endurance than the other two.
Or I could Easternize it myself. A Pegasus is Soul. A Unicorn is Mind. An Earth Pony is Body.
Trying to confuse that basic natural issue goes against the practice we have here and as far as we can tell, also against basic logic and canon itself. I shouldn't have to explain that.
Beyond that, yes, they are our most flexible force. As I'd stated earlier which seemed to have been overlooked, anything the other two races are capable of, Earth Ponies can handle with tools and ingenuity. Which means, if they are our largest percentage, we can have them supporting the specialists, creating a mixed unit and opening further strategy for consideration, strengthening the Unicorns and Pegasi in their roles while maintaining that stalwart frontline presence. (Also note as I said several times, per the description, ranged weapons are allowed in this battle. Meaning it's a simple matter to have earth ponies outfitted with them) Now, do please see what I stated in my earlier posts about grounding the griffons, and griffon aerial ability against a pegasi's. I've already said it at least three times.
While I appreciate the depth of thought you're putting into this, I feel as if you're channeling yourself into to narrow a rut here. We have many options available to us, that will allow us to maximize synergy. Something the griffons don't have.
SUDDENLY A GIANT WHITE EXCLAMATION POINT ON A BLACK BACKGROUND.
ReplyDeleteUnicorn for me!
ReplyDelete666'th comment! And probably Pegasus for me. :D
ReplyDeleteI'd be a pegasus, no doubt.
ReplyDelete@Kayriel
ReplyDelete(Part 1)
Oh, don't try to pull that one on me. When you've made the points that you have, patronization just doesn't work. You see, I could easily say the same of you. Perhaps I should ask you to actually take the time and attempt to recognize my argument? I would, and should have quite some time ago. There is a fine, unstable line between "debate" and "argument". I wish to keep this on the right side, as we are talking about Ponies, but I'm going to need your help with that.
Moving on.
I am sure that Earth Ponies have their assumed biological advantages, but even the strongest of those don't, as I have already stated, paint a "physically frail" picture of other ponies. You assumptions of Earth Pony strength aren't entirely inaccurate, but they vastly overestimate both the power and usability of Earth pony strength.
Besides, if you really want to nitpick about the details of physical strength, note the endurance of Pegasus Ponies. Check out this little diagram:
http://www.equestriadaily.com/2011/04/physics-behind-sonic-rainboom.html
A Pegasus was able to pull this off as a Filly. Yes, the Filly was Rainbow Dash, but I doubt that her physical endurance is unreasonably different from a standard Pegasus. Any "light, flexible" body would be torn to shreds. Hell, even at average speeds, you would need quite the endurance both to control sustained flight and to reach supersonic speeds. And no, I'm not going to take another "She's Rainbow Dash!" retort. Physical Endurance has nothing to do with outstanding flight skills.
Yes, Earth Ponies had to rely on muscle. But what does that mean? They built up biological strength through farming. Remember, according to Hearth's Warming Eve, the primary virtue of Earth Ponies wasn't physical strength. It was their ability to produce food. The Pegasi, however, were valued for their ability to control weather. So if you want to argue based on pre-equestrian virtues, I suggest a different strategy.
But all in all, physical strength doesn't matter all too much. If you actually took the time to read over the Sun-Tzu quotes I provided, you can begin to see my point. Even if the strength fallout between Earth Ponies and Pegasi was as large stated, which it is not, the true power behind the Pegasi lies in their Strategic value, as I have stated in every single comment previous to this one. If you want to question some of the oldest, strongest, and most revered military strategists that ever lived, keep on using that argument.
Okay, now that I've covered that, time to move forward yet again.
@Kayriel
ReplyDelete(Part 2)
You can talk about the "flexibility" of Earth Pony forces all you want, but honestly, you are, yet again, over-estimating their abilities. You argue that "tools and integrity" can match everything that everypony else can ditch out. Um...well...until you find some sort of earth pony machine that can handle weather control/sustained, agile, flight whilst maintaining a small form/telekinesis/spellcraft/sun and moon control/etc. Besides! It would be far more budget efficient to draft a flight ready Pegasi over and Earth pony "adapted" to fit that role. So why even bring it up?
Also, by your accusation of my point going against "basic logic and canon itself", I guess you force me to clarify my point. In a standard, non brony-integrated war, there would be quite the abundance of Earth Ponies. And they would do just as you suggested they do. Also, do remember that this is a battle in which ponies are drafted by personal choice, and not by hereditary luck. And so, it would be beneficial to have as many Pegasi as possible, granted that they are the most combat-efficient race.
So, in all honesty, the points you have made don't add up anything special. All you have managed to prove, disregarding my corrections, is the "physical strength" and "Flexebility" of the Earth Ponies. At the same time, you have failed to address multiple important points that determine the usefulness of Earth Ponies. I have already stated most, if not all of the following. So if you
1. We are fighting an entirely airborne force. As our anti-air measures are primitive and take much skill to master, we need Pegasi to counter this. Besides, if we didn't have an airborne force, the war would be over before it started. Such is the nature of war.
2. Gryphons, based on the prowess of the Lion, are undoubtedly stronger than, even to your logic, the strength of Earth Ponies. This isn't a war we can win with brawn.
3. Earth Ponies have no magical abilities that set themselves apart from the other races. Magic, both weather and horn based, is all we have over the enemy. We have to abuse it. Even if the Earth Ponies had the help of Equestrian technology, the budget would be far better spent on recruiting new magic users that can complete the task in even less effort, and operate the machinery by themselves if need be.
If this were another situation, such as apple-bucking or farming, I would pick Earth-Pony strait away. It's not like I have anything against them. It's just that, as hinted in a Hearth's Warming Eve, Pegasi were always the war-bound race.
So, all in all, here's a list of things you can gripe about:
1. Incredible speed, and unmatched agility.
2. Undisputed control over weather, including lightning, storms, and whirlwinds.
3. According to the amount of G-force a Pegasus can take, otherworldly endurance.
4. A plethora of stunt/maneuver based magic that can quickly be weaponized.
5. Unmatched flexibility, as they can act on the air or ground, work as assassins, strategic bombers, cloud-wielding guardsmen, medical evac, and, reserved to a specific few, weapons of mass destruction. None of these jobs, well, maybe assassin, can be preformed by an Earth Pony.
6. A warlike background with undoubted history of flight-based combat.
7. Undoubtedly our most valuable asset to begin with, as if we lost our air-force, we will lose this battle.
8. Badassery. Always a virtue.
P.S. Running into a rut? Please. Besides, the fact that synergy plays a roll in our success is a flaw.
Crap. Just notice italics don't carry over from Word to this website.
Griffon. *Salute*
ReplyDeleteSee you on the other side.
Pegasus.FLYING IS AWESOME!!!!!
ReplyDeleteUnicorn will do!
ReplyDelete@Rain
ReplyDeleteWith your flippant and challenging, utterly rude tone, I'm not going to dignify your remarks with a complete reply.
I will say however, you've once again missed my points. And if you think synergy is a flaw, then you're obviously not going to get very far with your theoretical strategy, as it's our greatest advantage in this side of the war-table.
Top that off, you are basing what the pegasi and unicorn are capable of on Rainbow Dash, and the latter on something completely unfounded, with the control of sun and moon having taken many unicorns prior to Equestria's founding, and apparently outside the realm of ability for unicorns to handle since the alicorns became involved.
I also -never- doubted the Pegasus control of the weather, and in fact said it was crucial as their main advantage over the griffons, and an enormous boon to all races in the army. I promoted synergy by combining all the talents of each race to create an unbreakable force that was still flexible enough to meet almost any strategem, using the Earth Ponies to take the brunt of assaults and to reinforce Unicorns and Pegasi alike. You seem to just be biased towards Pegasi and have practically intoned they can win the war by themselves. Go ahead. Draft a perfect all-Pegasi plan that doesn't include the abilities, specialties, and numbers of the Earth Ponies and Unicorns. In any case, I've said what I needed to say several times now, if you're going to continue to misunderstand me and hold it against me then you, good sir, are at fault, without so much as extending a hoof to see about getting things ironed out and understood. Good day.
Unicorn. I would have prefered a pegasus, but Trixie wouldn't let me.
ReplyDeleteI rather be a Alicorn to have everything i need to lead everybody to victory!
ReplyDeleteEarth pony, the unsung heroes of Equestria ;_;>
ReplyDeleteI'll be Chief Royal Souper of the Soup making brigade, providing warm broth to our comrades. you're all very welcome <3
hmm.As much as i like jets...I think I'm gonna try a different approach.Ground troop Earth ponies.Challenges your creativity.Gonna plow through their defenses like a good ol' SV-001.
ReplyDeletePegasus always. Soaring epically through the skies. Engaging the Griffons in WWII-esque dogfights. Epic Dubstep music blaring. WInning.
ReplyDeletePegasus assassin personally. Sounds kick ass and awesome! I mean, magic sounds cool of course, but a bit boring. Same with the earth ponies. But being able to fly with stealth, infiltrate, attack, and assassinate sound flat out epic.
ReplyDeleteSo Pegasus, defiantly Pegasus.
@Rain
ReplyDelete1) Your attempt to use the 'physics behind the Sonic Rainboom' argument fails to take at least one major variable into account - the effect of Pegasus magic. There are several incidents which appear to indicate that Pegasus magic has an at least partial 'null-gravity' effect. (Whether this is an actual retardation of the weakest physical force, or is merely the ability to redistribute force vectors, is unknown.) Therefore, the level of G-forces a pony appears to take during a stunt does not necessarily indicate anything about their relative endurance.
2) Rainbow Dash's physical endurance (or, more properly, stamina) is, in fact, probably higher than that of most Pegasi - consider that, following the Running of the Leaves, several Pegasi were sprawled out, gasping - while RD had enough remaining stamina to run the course again.
3) Physical endurance has everything to do with flight skills - unless you're the kind of individual who, having fired a bow, immediately throws it away rather than nocking another arrow to it. Being able to pull off a stunt once is not important - it's being able to continuously do so that will make or break our aerial forces on the field of battle.
4) You are arguing a point in a falacious manner - Pegasi are not, necessarily, the most combat-effecient race. They simply appear to have special advantages in this particular case, given that the enemy is also an aerial race.
5) As noted by myself earlier, and by others with converging lines of logic, our Pegasi -are- our best AA measures: Pegasus weather control, whether in generating turbulence, or in inflicting fog or rain, are the best tools we have for -grounding- the enemy's aerial forces.
6) We aren't trying to win via Brawn - but having forces at hand which can stand up to the enemy is an important issue. Unless every single one of our Pegasi is going to be given some kind of hyper-accelerated Royal Guard training, -they don't have this option-.
7) Pegasi may originally have been the warrior race, but the evidence of history seems to indicate that all three species have since lost most of that.
8) You mention in your closing points list the weather control abilities of Pegasi, but those items you specifically name are the most damaging forms of weather. I mention this to bring up a specific point: This is intended to be a -mock- war, with -non-lethal- weaponry. As such, I have to consider your list invalid: I'm fairly certain that those rules at play (ie, the ones that keep this in the realm of mock, rather than actual, warfare) will forbid them.
....griffon............................
ReplyDeleteUnicorn of course
ReplyDeleteUnicorn, I'd prefer to be the one in the back devising contraptions like giant pie flinging catapults!
ReplyDelete@Kayriel
ReplyDelete*sigh* Well, I had a feeling you'd take it like that...almost forgot this was a pony chat... I didn't mean to be rude, but I took your patronization as a blatant offense and reacted appropriately. Again, I was not in the wrong here...and I only used that tone in the first paragraph. I even gave an explanation.
" There is a fine, unstable line between 'debate' and 'argument'. I wish to keep this on the right side, as we are talking about Ponies, but I'm going to need your help with that."
Okay, next part. At this point...it seems I can just pull previous statements...that you seem to have overlooked...in order to defend my points. I told you I would take that excuse again.
"And no, I'm not going to take another "She's Rainbow Dash!" retort. Physical Endurance has nothing to do with outstanding flight skills." I'll let you blame me for not reading your comments, but if you don't read mine, your words don't mean very much. I don't blame you, though. This debate is getting a little out-of-hoof, am I right? Also, the "sun and moon" was only one section of an entire slew of examples. If you want to respond to one, I suggest responding to them all. You did happen to state that " anything the other two races are capable of, Earth Ponies can handle with tools and ingenuity". All I did was give my reply. So, in all honesty, bringing that retort here is nothing more than-no-offence...a complaint.
Also, I never doubted that you doubted the Pegasi's control over weather. You missed many of the points that I have made, so I chose to summarize the simpler advantages the Pegasi possess in order to make the process a little less demanding. I didn't want to repeat myself, but you forced my hand.
Also, to clarify my point about synergy, due to the fact that the Gryphon forces are of a single identity, they won't have to spend that extra time promoting synergy. They are one race with common attributes, and therefor, don't have to worry as much about in-bred problems. For instance, look at the debate right here. I would expect that, due to the same overarching factors of differing opinions based on racial advantages, they wouldn't get very far.
Also, if you continue to doubt my position, check out the small battle summary I posted higher up on this page. Hopefully, that should clear some things out. It's not an "all-perfect Pegasi plan", as you have suggested. You know, in my very first comment, I stated that that
" the battle rides on a combined effort of all three races. But, as I have explained, without the skills on the Pegasi, enemy air-domination would spell doom for all of us."
So yeah, please don't accuse me of being bias. As-by your own logic-I can dub you of the same title. However, I have both stated my points and have provided, in my eyes, significant evidence. So, all the accusation of bias opinions will do is kindle the start of a flame-war. If you want to provide better means of undermining my argument, I wholeheartedly suggest a legitimate rebuttal.
If not, simply skip to the outro. I hope it clears a few non-pony topics up.
If you would like an in-depth account of the hypocrisy of your statement, check out the following comment. If not, feel free to ignore it, as it goes off on quite the tangent.
@Kayriel
ReplyDelete1. You suggested that the Earth Ponies are "better overall fighters" than the other two races. I suggested otherwise, giving you reasons why one might suspect Pegasi of filling the same roll.
2. You suggested that "Anything the Pegasi and Unicorns can do, the Earth Ponies can accomplish in another way. " I suggested otherwise, giving my insight on the more impressive abilities of Unicorns and Pegasi.
3. You suggested that the Gryphons are, overall, better combatants than the Pegasi. In the same light, you overestimated the importance of physical strength and endurance. I suggested otherwise, promoting the importance of Stealth, air dominance, and weather-control.
4. You suggested that the natural talent of each three races be used to our advantage. I agreed, though, adding the show's logic and reminding you that the natural ability of the Earth Pony is food-production. I also suggested that, by your suggestion of hereditary influence (all based upon your logic), that the Pegasi would in fact be the most war-savvy race.
5. You suggested that the bodies of Pegasi are light and frail, while the Earth Ponies are "reliant on muscle and stature". I provided an accurate, yet overthought calculation of the (assumed) physical demands of a Sonic Rainboom.
@Kayriel
ReplyDeleteNo need to get angry, though. I didn't mean to offend, and I'm sorry if I came across as rude, but I found that the slope of your argument was getting a bit accusatory when you told me this:
" You've obviously missed what I've said in the last several posts. Please don't reply unless you've bothered actually reading what I've said."
I apologize if my response took you off-guard, but I assure you that, despite my lack of patience with patronization, I tried to keep cool. We all have our own opinions, and those opinions are to be respected, so I'll leave you to reflect upon your own ideas.
Remember to love and tolerate!
Nice talking with you.
"Hey"
ReplyDelete"What?"
You ever wonder why we're here?"
@CHeighlund
ReplyDelete(Part 1 of 2)
*Facehoof* Of course...right as one potential flame war ends, another pops up right in time to replace it. Look. If you want to interject my ramblings with a few of your own, I suggest you do so with the appropriate mindset.
I'll make this short and simple.
When I engage in debate, especially when I take 2nd affirmative, I attempt to disprove an opponent's argument based on their own set of logic. Therefor, I provide a counter to their statement based on the terms and conditions they've set for their example. By doing this, I can get right to the heart of their argument, putting them out of the game using their own tools. It's quick, efficient, and doesn't get messy. In the end, there is less head-butting over, in this case, canonical and/or realistic data. However, this leads to a problem if another adversary steps into the game before its met its end. You see, if you were to take my responses out of context, as you have, they will obviously seem flawed in the sense of a more...well...3 dimensional look on the logic of the situation. But you see, when I responded using the tools of my foe, the only logical guidelines that I take into account are those of his/her own.
I'll give you a quick example. First off, I want to commend you on forming a full rebuttal. I've been looking for something that could fit the dictionary definition, and voila! So yeah...thanks...
Anyway, you seemed to put a lot of thought into your response...and again, I respect that. However, most of your responses assume that my statements were, infact, completely stand-alone, that is to say, without the influence of a target or goal. But in reality out of the context of debate, and in all honesty...only improve my side of the argument. I hope you're starting to understand where I'm going...but I'll give you an example.
You stated that I was "arguing my point in a fallacious manner". However, my goal, as the rough equivalent of 2nd affirmative, was to directly target his flaws and replace them with examples that would benefit my argument. If you look back at the comments, you can obviously see that Kayriel, my opponent, was the first to state that the Earth Ponies are the most combat-efficient, claiming that they are "better fighters overall". He even went so far as to saying that " Anything the Pegasi and Unicorns can do, the Earth Ponies can accomplish in another way. " What's the best part? Well, he says it twice. So, if you wish to blame me for "fallacious arguments", I suggest you take another look at the debate from an un-biased standpoint. Because when you don't, you're mistakes can end up making you look rude.
Besides, if you look at a previous statement in which I am taking an unbiased view of the topic, you can see the following quote.
" All three pony races would be quite effective, but the Pegasi are probably the best strategic choice for the battle."
@CHeighlund
ReplyDelete(Part 2 of 2)
Anyway, there's one example. As you can see, most-if not all-of the points you have made are taken out-of-context, and are in direct response to the examples set by my opponent, using their logical basis. Anything else would just be adding icing on the cake, though, adding a level of opinion onto the matter that could make it turn, as I have said, messy quite quickly.
Okay. Now that I've given proper backing, I'm sure that your argument does prove a few non-misunderstood points that I have neglected to offend. However, this was already nearing the brink of a flame-war, and I think it'd be better for all of us if this ended here. We've wasted enough space, and enough time. I mean, we don't want anypony raging, right? :P
Note that, in the case that you call me out for "copping-out" of your argument, I am still readily available to debate every one of the points you have made both on a realistic level, and the level of explaining misinterpreted data. So yeah. Just a reminder! Frankly, it'd be a waste of both of our time, but it's up to you. Even though you decided to jump into this debate before it ended, I'm never the one to back down from a fight. I mean, I'm representing the Pegasi, right?
I think I'd be a unicorn meself.
ReplyDeleteUnicorn. Rally behind me lads! Into the breach!
ReplyDeleteGuess I'll stick to the ground as an Earth Pony, they'll be too focused on the countless number of pegusai roaming the skies anyways.
ReplyDeleteUnicorn, as much as I'd love to fly having a good amount of magic would let me create my own wings! Oh, and snipe people with water balloons.
ReplyDeleteStormwing at the ready!
ReplyDeleteUnicorn. I admire pegasi, but wouldn't want to be one.
ReplyDeleteWould love to be a pegasus, but imma gonna choose earth pony anyway ;)
ReplyDeleteUnicorn, My innate magical abilities would be able to enhance the abilities of my fellow earth ponies and pegasi
ReplyDelete....griffon. =w=
ReplyDeletepegasus is best pony.besides alicorn.
ReplyDeletePegasus i rule the skys!
ReplyDeleteUNICORN
ReplyDeletepegasus
ReplyDeletepegasus so i can be like rainbow dash
ReplyDeletePegasus, makes sense with being a paratrooper. And if you dont have a front line, where will the enemy know where to find you?
ReplyDelete