Author: Slywit
Description: Celestia and Luna were born as unassuming foals in troubled times. But already marked for greatness, the simple earth ponies stand to face a world set against them, full of danger, fear, and sadness. A world they will change forever.Paradise (New Part 22!)
Paradise Live Reading
387 comments:
@SlyWit
ReplyDeleteI love it!!!
Keep up the great work!
This is some kick-a$$ literature right here.
ReplyDeleteI really need to see, read, feel more of this.
ReplyDeleteThere was points in this story I was giddy with laughter, moved to tears, whispering some rather colorful language under my breath, and I couldn't even be moved to put it down.
I read all nine chapters that were out when I found this in one sitting. I can't wait for more!
GOD FUCKING DAMN IT! now I have to wait for the next chapter! >:( just when shit was getting good. I'm starting to wonder how celestia gets her wings.
ReplyDeleteWhy must this fic be in fic limbo? i've been waiting for chapter 10 for a really long time.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteIt's not in limbo. I've gotten 2000 words into the next chapter. While I work, it sometimes just takes weeks to find enough time. I do my best.
This story is extremely well done and fully deserves the 6 star rating. The world that you have constructed is very believable and interesting.
ReplyDeleteI look forward to further updates.
It's good to know you're still working on this fic, it's been a while. You can't rush perfection, I suppose.
ReplyDelete@Jerry Zucchini
ReplyDeleteCan't pay for food with fanfiction either. But honest to Celestia (and Luna), I am trying very hard to squeeze the energy and time out of a day to put into finishing this story
Hey, @SlyWit!
ReplyDeleteKeep up the good work. I've read this story twice now and I can't get enough. If there is ever anything I can do to help (mostly editing), let me know!
Like.
ReplyDeleteAny chance of an update soon?
ReplyDelete@frybrain
ReplyDeleteMy magic 8 ball says the prognosis is optimistic. I just got through two weeks of my own personal AppleBuck Season and I have a couple days off. I feel decently recovered and the next chapter is at 2500 hundred words.
So if the weather is fare, and Celestia smiles on me, I should get a lot more done. If you are super-pinkie level optimistic, maybe at the end of this week? A more Twilight approach would remind you that I've made many such statements to myself ("end of this week for sure!") only to fail to live up to them.
Anyways, short answer: There MIGHT be one very soon.
@SlyWit
ReplyDeleteMental Note to self: Never promise a deadline. That's a guarantee to not meet it. Ugh.
Still, working hard. There WILL be a chapter. Just a question of when.
Chapter 6 and I'm almost crying while reading certain part and hearing Death Trip Serenade. ;-;
ReplyDeleteThis fanfic really is awesome. While I'd like to shout at you to hurry up, I know that these things take time and have to take a back seat to real life. Keep doing what you're doing, because what you're doing is pretty rad.
ReplyDelete@SlyWit
ReplyDeleteSo long as you're committed to finishing this excellent story, you take as long as you need to get it right.
Im going to have to agree with the others, take your time. I've been waiting patiently for the next chapter knowing that it will blow my head off.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, if they where to make a MLP:FiM movie based on the royal sisters, this story would be best for it.
The next chapter for this can't come quickly enough. Seriously. This is an utterly amazing story. The only disappointment I experienced is when I reached Chapter 9, and there was nothing more to read. Please, PLEASE write more! I really want to see where this goes!
ReplyDeleteThis is absolutely well-deserving of its six-star rating!
I want another chapter </3
ReplyDeleteTake your time, don't you DARE let your fans rush perfection!
ReplyDeleteI learned that the hard way, but even though I didn't like what I made when I rushed, everyone else did. =)
YOU CAN'T LOSE
@Jett
ReplyDeleteWell, I'm rushing to work on it, but I'm giving the same attention to detail I have given all my other chapter. Maybe even more since I decided to have volunteer proofreaders since the chapter before this.
So best of both worlds? Rushing to work but not rushing the execution.
@SlyWit
ReplyDeletehey you think i could help proofread?
@derpwut
ReplyDeleteI usually select my proof readers/editors on this thread:
http://www.ponychan.net/chan/fic/res/906+50.html#41167
Expect the next chapter by the end of this week at the latest.
Awesome! I'll save it for tomorrow. Fics have been slow, gives me something to look forward too (and its 3.36 am already anyway).
ReplyDeleteBut its great to see another chapter. I wasn't really doubting it since our conversation after you uploaded the last chapter. Still good to see its finally here though ^^
Wow...
ReplyDeleteits been 2 months since the last update
i was beginning to think it had really died
Thank you for another great chapter
Thank god finally an update. This is one of the best stories on here. Would be an insult to art itself to let it die
ReplyDeleteSo happy this finally updated. It's easily one of my favorite fics.
ReplyDeleteI loved the new chapter!
As always, another great chapter. The tension was palpable -- and quite a surprise at the end there!
ReplyDeletewhew was worried this one had died
ReplyDeleteglad to see an update
Always happy to see more "Paradise"! Loved every word of it. Can't wait for the next installment! :D
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAwwwwwesoooooooome. I loved what you did with the Shaman, especially her name.
ReplyDeleteI think i heard this mebtioned on Bronyville, so I decided to read it (while waiting for episode 18 to download on my phone). And...... Granny Pie?! So..... Is this the same Granny Pie Pinkie mentions in her song or- no, no can't be....
ReplyDeleteWay to go author you got me all confused and hopeless now so update quickly!!!!!
Every time you upload a new chapter, the more I want to see the next one. The last chapter left me with a huge grin on my face. I am absolutely LOVING this!
ReplyDeleteEven if Celestia's and Luna's origin is found out to be different, I want to see Paradise finished to the very end. I love it in its own right. :)
So as soon as the Shaman came and started giggling at the wolves, I just smiled. I knew it was a Pie.
ReplyDeleteEh what its alive?!
ReplyDeleteKnew the Shaman had to be a Pie as well. Granny's introduction is totally reminiscent of Pinkie's Giggle at the Ghostly. Also, doesn't this mean Granny Pie is potentially thousands of years old?
ReplyDelete...
Actually, this doesn't really surprise me. She IS a Pie after all.
Loved the long awaited return of Paradise! Now hopefully Rose Tinted will make a comeback...
I love reading your work.
ReplyDeleteGranted, the granny pie tie in has some odd ramifications regarding the timeline. It'ms guessing the name just carries down from generation to generation.
This story is good enough to be real in my mind. Until the show tells us differently, this is how I'm going to assume Celestia and Luna grew up. It's a great story and it makes sense. Also, I assume Celestia has to learn how to use the elements of harmony from the other bearers of the time now. If the initial story is correct from episode 1 (and it may not be), then Celestia used the elements of harmony once before to banish Luna.
ReplyDeletePINKIE SENSE EXPLAINED! Someone must inform Twilight. Thanks for another great chapter. I really wanna know who Luna's friend is so don't dally on this next chapter, Slywit. I don't know if I've said it before, but this fic is consistently the one I'm most excited to see updated. Keep at it!
ReplyDelete@ColourSplash and @7-Tor See: @hiroshi_tea has it right (of this moment, as I plan it anyways, unless I have a reason to change [which I don't see why I would]).
ReplyDeleteEvery Pie is nicknamed Granny Pie once they have grandchildren. It's passed down every new generation. Pinkie and her Granny Pie are direct descendants of the shaman line, and Pinkie is one of the stronger inheritors of the shaman trait through the years.
@everyone else
Thank you for the comments! I can't express how much they mean to me. Even if I don't directly reply, I have read them and love them.
Another vivid and vibrant chapter packed with danger and excitment. I was going ohshitohshitohshit all throughout the chase.
ReplyDeleteAnd the shaman? Loved her!
Now to start guessing what Luna's new friend is. Pegasus, phoenix, or dragon. Taking all bets!
Once again I can not express enough how much I love this story. Like I said this was the first story I read on EQ Daily and what got me into actually reading fan fiction. I am so excited to see it up and going again. This is such a beutiful story. Until we're told different this is cannon in my head. Keep up the great work.
ReplyDeleteSo Pinkie Pie comes from a long line of Shamans Huh? Suddenly it all makes sense.
@hiroshi_tea
ReplyDeleteThe Shaman even says that she became "Granny Pie" after her daughter had children. Clearly, it's a nickname.
After all, you're grandmother is "Grandma," right? But your mother also had a "Grandma" and so did your Grandma!
Pie seems to be the family name, in this case.
Oh my goodness, reading this was intense. I'll be anxiously awaiting the next chapter. This is my absolute favorite story since Creeping Darkness.
ReplyDeleteFIRST <--(Typed by Luna's own hooves after realizing she's an Alicorn!)
ReplyDelete^^^ All joking aside ^^^
ReplyDelete---------------
Wow... Past Sins, Bittersweet, The Party Never Ends, Don't Let the Sun Catch You Crying, Frigid Winds and Burning Hearts, Macintosh, Progress...
These stories have topped my list. There are a few stories I hear that I MUST read...
But Paradise is now topping my list, #1. This is a work of pure beauty and art... This is how Equestria should be made. I do love so many of the stories above, but I grow tired of the whole Alicorns as gods thing. They are ponies. They have been given lofty responsibilities, but this is a world of magic... They are powerful, and have a responsibility that utilizes that amazing power... But they are still ponies. This story has connected to me MORE THAN ANY OTHER STORY IN ALL THE FANDOM by making the wonderful pair of sisters SIMPLE EARTH PONIES at birth, slowly developing their strengths, gaining their horns and magic, and now Luna, with her wings, becoming the first Alicorn.
I can't wait to see them develop and grow into the mares they will become. I wonder how far this story will go. Will it cover only the proto development of pony civilization, a unification of the breeds, will it see it's way to global dominance by ponies and peace among newly formed nations? Will it see the last human? Will be see the fall of Luna...
This story has so much potential. I could see volumes written about this version of Equestrian history. How many generations will pass between these times and the times where ponies no longer fear the act of simply living free?
If this story could have 25 chapters, I'd only wish for 50, and then i'd only with for 50 more. I'll follow this story for years if it takes that developmental path. If it ends in a few more chapters, I'll be sad to see it conclude, but will enjoy every last iota on every last letter.
I commend your work, for it is sublime!
Also... Pinkie sense solved!
yay
@SomeGuy,
ReplyDeleteI'm always happy to hear people get converted by it. I had to be converted to fanfic myself at one point, but the rewards have been great.
@richfiles
This is an awesome comment and you are an awesome person. I'm so glad to hear it connecting well. A long time ago, when this was first inspired, people were discussing where Luna and Celestia came from. I found that the idea of them once being just little ponies was the take with the most potential to be a great story.
I hope you continue to read (and comment!) and find it still awesome.
Just started reading this tonight. Its already past 2AM but I have no regrets whatsoever. This story is magic, pure and simple. I don't know if there's any other way to describe it. Magic. I mean, I feel like there's a whole lot more I should say about it, but for now I'm speechless.
ReplyDeleteWow, I was wondering when this was gonna update. Y'see, I keep a list of in-progress fics in my favorites that I open every so often to see whether they've updated. As it turns out, this was pretty much the last holdout for updating in August. However, I must say, it was well worth the wait. I remember reading this, and being so enthralled by how everything was set up, but even more so than that, I could honestly be happy with this being canon. I can't say it's my favorite fic, but easily within the top 10, or hell, the top 5.
ReplyDeleteAlso, discussing the shaman, at first, I didn't notice anything odd. Then, when she went up and honked the wolf on the nose, I was like "no fucking way..." Then, when she talked about giggling I was like, "so, some ancient ancestor of Pinkie?" Obviously, I was right. Nice way of explaining the "Pinkie Sense," too!
Also, I tried to find your thread on /fic/ or whatever, to see when you would update, but I have no idea how to navigate that place, so I gave up after 10 minutes of trying to search you out.
@Jonny Manz
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ponychan.net/chan/fic/res/906.html
It's a huge thread. You can just skip to the end and see what I'm discussing at the moment.
Thanks, being in the top 5 or 10 is still a huge accomplishment. I've read some other pony-work and I must say that FiM has attracted some very talented fan-authors! Yeah, the shaman appeared in the very first chapter so long ago, and I've been very interested to get to this one ever since for the big reveal of who she was.
Ok, now that I've had a chance to collect some of my thoughts off the floor where it had been shattered into a million pieces by the awesomeness in this story, I figure I might share some of them.
ReplyDeleteRight from the very start, the world you've painted feels alive. I can picture myself being there without closing my eyes. Everypony's personality, their reactions... this is what I would expect from a group of intelligent creatures living without the aid of tools. They're nomadic gatherers, but they're not at all primitive. Especially their philosophy about life, death and loss. Seeing everypony show so much strength in the face of adversity, I knew from that point on that no matter how dark things might get, there would always be hope.
I can see how the life they live seeps into everything they do. The games they play, the words they choose.
I was the younger child of two for a long while (though somewhere along the line I became the middle child) I remember what it was like trying to keep pace with my elder sibling and never quite being able to. Reading this, I can relate to Luna, but perhaps more amazingly, I thought that perhaps I caught a glimpse of how my sibling must have felt.
I was a little hesitant to hear about humans in the story, but you blew away all my worries.
The part where they stayed with the Unicorns wove such a subtle tale. I could feel the tension and menace growing and practically see the clouds gathering, but I was a little unprepared for just how serious it got. Not in a bad way though. When the Unicorn society's true nature was finally laid bare, I was on the edge of my seat... and I must say that I'm glad I didn't have to wait for an update to see it to its resolution. That might have been a bit much to stand.
ReplyDeleteAnd yet, no matter how much my blood burned and my heart sank at their cruel treatment, the way Celestia tried every solution she could think of that could benefit everyone, every way that would give her captors a noble way to save face and set things right, it made me feel like there really is a solution out there for seemingly impossible problems.
It was a long time ago now that I came to the understanding that a lot of what is right and wrong depends greatly on what kinds of alternatives are available. Some things that normally would seem horrible, if left without any way out, can become justifiable. Conversely, sometimes things that seem normal can become abhorrent when someone discovers a better way.
Although, when push finally came to shove, my heart soared right alongside Luna.
I always figured that Pinkie Sense was some kind of natural but supercharged extension of Earth Pony magic, kind of like how Twilight's amazing abilities were an natural but supercharged extension of Unicorn magic. The basic Earth Pony magic seems to be some sort of understanding of the Earth and life, plants, animals, living things, what they need, and in a subtle way being able to influence them. This is a lot like how Unicorns all seem to have some ability at telekinesis, however their magic also finds a way to relate to their special talent.
So I figure that Earth Pony magic might also find ways to relate to their special talents too, (Pinkie Pie being somewhat random, she manages to intuit things out of seemingly random signs.) and since there's some evidence that special talents tend to run in the family, it makes sense that Pinkie Sense might as well. Or at least that has been my take on it, and it seems to fit pretty well with the Shaman.
Paradise is officially a part of my personal pony cannon from now on. The way it fits in with the series perfectly just amazes me. You've continually topped yourself throughout with the reveal of Shaman Granny Pie being the greatest moment. I love young Cellestia and Luna, I love the little retrospective quotes at the top of each chapter, and I love the way it makes sense why the pony princess sisters set out to make a nation where all ponies could live and work together in peace and harmony after their experiences with the shortcomings of pony society.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing I'm still trying to understand is why they end up needing to take control of the sun and the moon when they seem to be doing fine without their direction.
@icekatze
ReplyDeleteWow, this is such an amazing comment! It gives me so much to reflect on and think about as a writer, I could really sink my teeth into every paragraph and think about my relation to the craft and to the reader.
Feel free to stop by my ponychan threat and chat! The invitation is open to everyone, but you perhaps have a lot you could discuss if you ever wanted to have an exchange.
Thanks, man. I'll definitely have to go check it out. Ah, man, but mentioning the top 5, 2 out of the 5 will be finishing quite soon. I mean, Pen Stroke promised "Past Sins" would be completed tonight, and "On a Cross and Arrow" will almost certainly be wrapped up in the next chapter or two. Then, you factor into that "Memories of Days Long Past," which has been put on hold indefinitely. Oh well, at least I have this and "Antipodes" to look forward to, as continuing for quite a while. I'm right about this one going on for a good bit longer, right?
ReplyDeleteAlso, I can't help but wonder when Celestia will get her wings. I have a good feeling about it happening within the next three chapters, but I've been VERY wrong about predictions in the past. Oh well.
Also, the full top 5 (since I gave away the names up there, I figure I might as well give 'em in their proper order):
1. Past Sins
2. Antipodes
3. On a Cross and Arrow
4. Paradise
5. Memories of Days Long Past
@Jonny Manz
ReplyDeleteDammit, that comment of mine above was supposed to be replying to you, SlyWit, but I must've messed it up somehow.
@Jonny ManzOh, I understood the context of the comment.
ReplyDeleteInteresting choices! 1 and 3 are both quite controversial. I've heard good things about 2 and 5 though.
Huh, for some reason, Blogger's not letting me directly reply to you. Oh well, this is a reply to you. Also, when I went to preview my comment, Blogger derped and I lost the whole damn thing. God freakin' dangit. Oh well, I'll try to remember as much as I can:
ReplyDeleteOh yeah, I've seen some of the hatred surrounding Past Sins (Nyx in-particular) and read some of the comments. Some of the worst (I think) are compiled here: http://ponibooru.413chan.net/post/view/42770. It's hilarious how vitriolic some of the comments are. On the ponibooru post, I am Anonymous #339157 (AKA the anon that staunchly defended Past Sins, and did so in a hopefully well thought out, well written comment) & #339159. However, hearing that 3 was controversial is news to me. I'd only heard about an incident that occurred when the story was first posted, which was that some parasprites thought it would be funny to spam the star rating system for the story with 1-star ratings, and only because the guy's past two fics were Star-6. Did that incident happen, or is my brother just bullshitting me again?
Oh, and Past Sins just got completed. Funny how that works!
ReplyDeleteAs expected, chapter 10 was fantastic. I feel like I should wait until the finished product to read it entirely, but some part of me can't wait to read a chapter as soon as it's updated.
ReplyDeleteThis story provides a fantastic perspective on the FiM universe and, just as Pyrite said, this is without a doubt my personal canon plot. Keep up the good work, I'll be stalking this fic from time to time eagerly awaiting the next chapter.
@Jonny Manz
ReplyDeleteDefinitely not to the scale of Past Sins, but I've had some short discussions on /co/ of Cross and Arrow. There are some flaws with the story that drive a few people mad. That's about it, really.
One of these days I'll have to figure out how to operate all these new fangled chans that are out there, and what not. Maybe after I catch up on my fan art backlog.
ReplyDelete((I've never quite understood the hate for OCs, every character is someone's original, some are good, some arent. And I get that people are looking for something in particular and don't care for it, but Equestria Daily does a pretty good job of keeping things sorted.))
CH.10 :
ReplyDelete>loudly declaring, “Honk!”
>“But . . . laughing?”
>“I’m a shaman, of course!” Laughter came like punctuation with her. “I followed Shaman Sense!”
>I was out looking for you when my nose began to itch.
-I hadn't commented so far, mostly because I never felt it was really necessary here, but...
Really ? What is essentially a Pinky Pie-clone-shaman, with ''Shaman Sense''... just suddenly popping there ?
I don't know. It fells a bit odd, if not ''foreign'' for this story ? Like a different kind of 'atmosphere' just inserted itself there.
Not that it's ''bad'', per say, but... well, you know ?
>“You can call me Granny Pie.”
-Come on now ? ''Granny Pie'' ?
Correct me if I'm wrong (someone will surely do it...) but... isn't this supposed to be happening in the FAR and VERY DISTANT past of the Princesses ? Like, several thousands years ago, at the VERY least ?
...She just seems like so ''foreign'' to the atmosphere this story had before this point...
... Mmh. Well... this story had a 'special' fell/atmosphere to it, until now. Now ? Well, as much as I like Pinky Pie, her 'clone-shaman-granny' seems an odd addition to the story. I guess that's that, and we just have to wait and see where the story will be going now ...
@Nova25
ReplyDelete>Really ? What is essentially a Pinky Pie-clone-shaman, with ''Shaman Sense''... just suddenly popping there ?
Actually, the Pinkie Pie ancestor was included from the very first chapter, and the existence was referenced again in the unicorn chapters. I think I'm going to start running into this problem more frequently, where people forget what I included long before. I might have to start putting up more reminders. Or just update faster (like that'll happen, ha!)
>I don't know. It fells a bit odd, if not ''foreign'' for this story ? Like a different kind of 'atmosphere' just inserted itself there.
Not that it's ''bad'', per say, but... well, you know ?
Perhaps. I do have a LONG and thought out explanation on why the Shaman CAN do this. Short version is it has to do with how wolves use fear to judge the threat of another animal, the Shaman acting fearless essentially bluffing them into retreat. I guess it's that in my mind, this becomes a perfect explanation of Pinkie's weirdness, sixth sense, and origin of Giggle At the Ghostly, based entirely on the in-world logic, thus the addition. I'd love to talk about it more. Maybe if I know exactly why it felt off for you, I can improve up later chapters. Find me on Deviant Art or Ponychan (I like the public-ness of Ponychan's thread. I've left several links here in the comments).
>Correct me if I'm wrong (someone will surely do it...) but... isn't this supposed to be happening in the FAR and VERY DISTANT past of the Princesses ? Like, several thousands years ago, at the VERY least ?
It's not the granny pie of Pinkie's song, no. Rather, I hoped to imply that Granny is a name passed down once a Pie becomes . . . well, a granny. That's why the shaman said she was called that AFTER she had grandchildren. So this isn't THE granny pie, but her ancestor. One of the days, Pinkie will be her own granny pie.
I really hope you contact me and we can discuss the problems so I can pin down what went wrong and where.
@SlyWit
ReplyDeleteWell, I recalled the shaman, yes... But not that it ''was'' or was ''acting'' like Pinky Pie.
''Granny'' as a title, hmm ? Well, if she was refering to it as ''The Granny Pie'' instead of simply saying that she ''is'' Granny Pie... it might add this effect more, maybe ?
...and, ok. I will post this message over DA too. For convenience :).
Just read all 10 chapters... I need more... This is too good!!!! MORE DAMN YOU!!!!
ReplyDeleteY U NO UPDATE MORE?
ReplyDelete@morri908
ReplyDeleteI'm working on it! I'm really distracted with my day job and side things like family visits.
I typically keep everyone updated through Deviant Art and my ponychan thread if you want to keep tabs on progress.
Nice to see this one updated it. I need to find time to read it sometime.
ReplyDeleteWow, this fanfic is within the very top of my list to sat THE LEAST. I'd hate to sound redundant here but I can sincerely say this is amazing. You're characterization is perfect, I've felt every emotion with Celly and Luna along the story(Read it all in one shot today, couldn't keep away).
ReplyDeleteIt's quite interesting, your grasp on the elements of harmony, the fact that all unicorns can harness the traits given by them. I am curious to see when the physical manifestations come about.(Unless they already do!)
On a side note: Luna is a complete magical badass, and she got wings first! HA! That is all. (:
Great Job! I read it every day on train... Need moar chapters!!
ReplyDeleteGreat read continue with your excellence! Theres a Pie in this story that just made it all the more awesome.
ReplyDeleteWith the arrival of Season 2 will you be including Discord to make the fanfic more canon, or will you continue with your current plans and count your losses?
ReplyDeleteIf you so chose, I think there is plenty of time to include discord in a believable way in your fic.
@Adam
ReplyDeleteJury is still out on that for me.
My original plans obviously did not include him, and I had mapped out major parts of the story like Equestria's creation and have big plans for the Elements of Harmony, both of which he drastically changes.
It's still possible to include him through some creative revision, but if I do, I want him to be so seamless in the story that people will not be able to tell I didn't plan this all along. THAT'S my big barrier to including him. He's a big enough villain to be a story all his own.
You are right that I have a lot of time before this becomes an issue. Let's see what inspiration says. For now, I'm continuing with the original course of "Season 1 canon."
Whats your DA Sly?
ReplyDelete@Kn16h7
ReplyDeletehttp://slywitwritingismagic.deviantart.com/
Hey....
ReplyDeleteUPDATE IT.
This story is the first fanfic I have ever truly loved. It was actually one of the first fics I have ever read.
ReplyDeleteAnyways, about how long do you expect the story to be?
Such as, will it be a 20-part story, or maybe even a 25-30 part?
@ULTRAMARIOX
ReplyDeleteOriginally, I had planned 15 parts, by dividing up the arcs into "episodes."
I later revised that to 20 when everything grew too long.
Then 25.
It's currently sitting at 30, but this might get revised again as I continue. I'm very bad with anticipating length.
@SlyWitHonestly, I think 30 parts is still too short.
ReplyDeleteIf you need any help, just email me. I am rather proficient at editing and proofreading, if you need any help in those areas.
Huzzah! I've been waiting for this for a long time. Thanks Sly!
ReplyDeleteWe have faith in you, SlyWit. I have no doubt you'd be able to work Discord into the plot naturally and effectively. There are many ways to do it, and I'm sure you wouldn't have much trouble getting it worked out. Who knows? My experience is that, often, new elements which occur to the author after the start may prove to be crucial puzzle pieces in building a narrative, completing the work in a way that later seems essential. Maybe Discord will add something very positive to Paradise, something which you hadn't considered. For my part, you have my vote to go ahead and work him into the story. This is just about as good as fan fiction gets, and I really, really want to be able to go on imagining it as canon.
ReplyDeleteHeck, for what it's worth, if you felt you had to, nothing says you can't go back and do a little re-writing. It's not like this is being printed and sold as is. We'd understand. Some of the best authors do it! Take Saddlesoap Opera for example. And you're one of the best too!
@SlyWit
ReplyDeleteJust an idea, but maybe if you treated the Discord in season 2 as the personification of chaos you could handwave any differences between between fanon and canon. For example, there is Discord and chaos in Equestria right now so maybe the princesses could have used the Elements of Harmony to contain it into a single entity which they turned to stone. The result could be the reason the ponies have to change the weather and seasons manually.
Hhm... Chapter 11 seems a bit off with some of its text. The sentences feel a bit... clunky or something.
ReplyDeleteHooray, new chapter! I'm always thrilled when this story updates. I think chapter 11 has my favorite cliffhanger ending yet. I can't wait to meet the pegasus society.
ReplyDeleteThank you SlyWit! I've been checking this EEVERY DAY. I even checked it earlier this morning, and again in the afternoon. I'm so happy this finally updated! I'm reading this the second I finish the new update to "Don't Let the Sun Catch You Crying".
ReplyDeleteTwo of my favorites updated, In. One. Day... Oh God! All my internets and stars!!!
@madmax i hate glinda
ReplyDeleteLOL!!! Alfalfa monster reference! you rock, woo hoo
ReplyDeleteI loved the new chapter, but after such a long wait... I feel so sad now that I'm already done reading it... I am already craving the next chapter.
ReplyDeleteLet me know when the next chapter comes out. I'll be in my bed curled up in the fetal position, shivering from fanfic withdrawals in the mean time.
Till next time SlyWit!
--shivers--
OMG yay an update! *goes to read*
ReplyDeleteAnother great chapter, I just hope the next one doesn't take to long!
ReplyDeleteWHY DID I FIND THIS UPDATE MINUTES BEFORE I PLANNED TO GO TO SLEEP? I will spend all night preparing my body for chapter 11.
ReplyDeleteThe month since the last update felt really quick. I didn't realize until this last update, but I'm putting as much priority into reading chapters of this as I am watching new episodes despite having school, work, etc kicking back up. That's quite the feat.
"The things you control with fear, you destroy." For all of Celestia's frustration, it is great to see her pulling her head together when it matters. I know laying on the guilt trip can be all to easy when someone doesn't come through for you and it takes a cool head to take the path less travelled.
ReplyDeleteI'm always thrilled to see the ways their shared experiences cause them to act alike, while their different experiences cause them to act differently. Could missing a brush with death help Luna develop an affinity for the night?
It seems like Luna is going to have a recurring issue trying to balance her desire for solitude and her desire to not be left behind. She didn't want to be left behind when her sister went to the unicorns, but she had to face her mother's horror at the loss. She wanted to go out and explore in her own carefree way, but she didn't want Rebel Bolt to leave her behind.
What a simple yet effective cliffhanger. If it weren't for granny pie's statement about how Luna just made a friend, I would half expect that Rebel Bolt gave them directions to a dragon's cave instead. Either way, his reaction to Luna's questions made me think that their meeting isn't going to be anything like what they expected.
@Discord
I for one wont care in the least if Discord doesn't make an appearance in this story. But if you think of a way to sneak him in, thats cool too. All we know for sure from the show about Pony History is that Celestia banished Nightmare Moon 1000 years prior, and that some indeterminate time before that, they wrested control of Equestria from Discord. Did they perhaps create an interim country before Discord's reign of chaos? Perhaps discord has something to do with the absence of humans in modern times? Celestia said they "discovered" the elements of harmony, but discovery doesn't mean you have to be the first to discover something. And even so, the Unicorn's didn't seem to know that magic itself was an element of harmony, so that discovery could unite them all together for the first time.
Anyway, as always, I am but a wanderer in the desert, waiting my next drink. May Celestia reveal your path and Luna watch over your dreams. :)
yay it got updated =D been saving this one for awhile now that I see it's still being updated I'll be getting my read on! ;3
ReplyDeleteI knew she was a Pie! Ever since chapter one, when she called them silly, I knew she was an ancestor of Pinkie. Also, there was Uncle Apple, ancestor of Apple Jack, Rebel Bolt is the ancestor of Rainbow Dash, and Crescent Change is Rarity's ancestor. Who was Twilight's? Most of the unicorns were skeptical that Celestia and Luna had started as earth ponies, and quite a few of them seemed to be good with magic. My best guess would probably be Silver Spear, but I'd have to read through it again and see. (Not that it'd be a problem, this story is awesome)
ReplyDeleteFinished reading the latest chapter last night. Oh man, with each chapter I really, really want to see where you go with this next!
ReplyDeleteI think I love this story so much because it shows how Celestia and Luna represent all the races of ponies. They aren't born into the role of ruler or goddess, but they have to earn it from very humble beginnings. And what's best about all of this is that they feel like ordinary ponies with real worries! I think it's absolutely charming how neither Luna nor Celestia are terribly masterful at their own abilities--like one would expect of little fillies.
I absolutely cannot wait to see what else you write, Slywit! :D
One of the first fanfics I read, and still my favorite. Thanks for the update.
ReplyDeleteThat last wait was pretty painful... Is this to be the standard? Just wanna know what frequency I should be checking in on this story. I do love it so much.
ReplyDelete@richfiles
ReplyDeleteWhen I first started, it was once a week. Unfortuantely, then life did it's thing. The updates have since been between 1 month or 2 months apart. Worry for taking so long! I hope to change that, but not sure if I can yet.
I loved this! There are fics on this site I enjoyed a bit more, but yours is CERTAINLY the best written. Definitely in my top 5.
ReplyDeleteI just finished within and without and have gotten into a lot of Luna/Celestia and origins stuff- I found this by chance from a song and it is awesome! I cant wait for more chapters.
ReplyDelete@Benschachar
ReplyDelete@icekatze
My current plan for Discord is that he'll appear in a different story, one I've tentively named Chaos for my personal short hand.
Paradise is all about the pony people and the sisters, and it's hard to slip in Discord without derailing that story.
Instead, I'm thinking he'll get his own story (Chaos), which will be referred to in Paradise, but not shown.
Subject to change, but I wanted to prepare people in case they get all excited about the Discord battle, that he might not appear in this story, but the next instead.
This is a gorgeous story! The plot is well-developed and thought-out, Celestia and Luna are both believable, and I simply cannot wait until the next chapter.
ReplyDeleteAlso, the references to the characters in the show are beautiful. <3
Keep up the good work!
This story has been on my "to read" list FOREVER. Finally got down to reading it this morning. This is probably one of the most deserving 6 Star fanfics I've read so far. I'm just totally swept away by it. My only complaint is in any story taking place in any franchises past it seems like authors always find a way to shoehorn in an "ancestor" of main characters. I hope you confine this just to Granny Pie because it has to be one of the most annoying tropes in these types of stories.
ReplyDeleteBut don't let my sour apples confuse you. I really do love this story with all my heart, and patiently and eagerly await another update no matter how long that takes.
@DarthVader
ReplyDeleteShoot me an email, Darth. There is a LOT of speculation over which ancestors have appeared in the story so far and which ones may appear later.
If you want, I can tell you the "truth" of them on the side. I won't spoil it for the rest though!
Omg amazing story sly
ReplyDelete@SlyWitTHIS IS 20% COOLER THAN ANYTHING I HAVE EVER READ
ReplyDeleteHate to bother but any idea when the next chapter will be done :o
ReplyDelete@Dr. Whooves
ReplyDeleteIf I could give a good answer, I would. Right now, things are pretty tough. As soon as I can get around to PAradise, I will.
Thanks for the quick reply, I guess I am late on reading it lol.
ReplyDeleteI just thought I should let you know that, on my bike ride to work in the morning, now that it is before the sun comes up... I have to bike through a wooded path, and every so often, Whip Scar's warning comes to mind and it positively gives me goosebumps.
ReplyDelete"Do not enter the forest at night. Do not ever."
*shudders* its giving me goosebumps right now! >:(
@icekatze
ReplyDeleteIt thrills me to hear that. Thanks for letting me know. Just be careful of the wolves. They hunt in packs.
I think I'll try to work on the next chapter after I see Luna in action on this weeks episode. Stuff still is pretty hard right now. Maybe this will all work out after I see Canon Luna?
Coldplay's song "Paradise" reminds me of this fanfic. And that just gave me the hugest smile. :)
ReplyDeleteJust sayin'. :)
Well, now you've seen Luna. Do you think you can do it? Can you transform the humble little sister into the haughty and socially awkward Princess of the Night?
ReplyDeleteI think you can, SlyWit. Many of the best, most complex characters in fiction are the ones who come from humble backgrounds and somewhat lose themselves in attaining a higher station. Ebenezer Scrooge, Heathcliff, Victor von Doom, Charles Foster Kane... all of whom skirt the line between hero and villain. And that certainly describes Luna. I think her now canon personality is a very suitable stepping-stone between who she is in your story and who she becomes as Nightmare Moon. Her current self is a kind of balance between the two, still prideful and aloof, but also possessing a deep yearning to inspire love and attention.
Seen in the right light, this only opens further opportunities to tell a compelling story. I just hope you aren't discouraged. Paradise is the kingpin of pony fiction.
@Joe England
ReplyDeleteI've been waiting so very eagerly for someone to bring up the new Luna episode to me, in /co/ or ponychan, in regards it's relation with Paradise.
The bottom line is, Nightmare Night Luna fitted my how I see Paradise's Luna to a near perfect T. The major strokes of her personality were ALL there. One or two things that I could not foresee have been added of course. Minor details like the Royal Voice or speaking in archiac language (no one wants to read an entire fic set in Shakespearean English, no matter how "accurate" that would be). But other than that, if I had written that episode myself with Paradise in mind, I'd have changed just about nothing.
Luna and Celestia both still have a long way to grow!
I eagerly await the results. Even if the with is more evil than Nightmare moon ever could be! ;)
ReplyDelete^_ Derp
ReplyDeleteApparently the spelling is just as evil. "Even if the WAIT is more evil"
@SlyWit
ReplyDeletePerhaps the fact that Luna hasn't had to face quite the same level of terrors and ordeals as Celestia is part of the reason why she is able to be so comfortable with scary things. Maybe it is part of what keeps her from fully understanding the fear other ponies feel? She has yet to witness first hand the kind of abuse of power that Celestia witnessed during her repeated questioning, and in the episode, she almost seemed a little uncertain about her own power. It fit in very nicely with the impression I get from your Luna, who has a lot of confidence when it comes to her own things, but not nearly so much when it comes to interacting with others.
The episode reminded me of Luna shouting after Rebel Bolt with all her heart, then not knowing what to say once he did stop to talk.
Regarding the "Royal Voice," I'm just going to assume that it was a period thing that came about around the time she was banished to the moon. I mean, who knows how long it was between the founding of Equestria and Nightmare Moon? As for the archaic language, you can just put a disclaimer at the beginning letting the audience know that this story has been translated from ancient equestrian. :)
@icekatze
ReplyDeleteI'm certainly using their experiences, even some small ones, to build up the characters to become the ones we know through the sisters' unique responses. I'm very glad to see elements of that are being noticed, which hopefully make the climaxes and epiphanies all that much more powerful. So long between chapters, I'm afraid people forget, sometimes.
And yeah, to reiterate, canon Luna is so seamless with the way I've tried to depict her. I love it. I'm glad to hear that people drew connections like you have.
Royal voice? I suppose it won't be too much to mention how I plan to tackle that.
If you noticed in the pilot episode, Luna was not using the royal voice at all with Celestia, but very plain English. So, the way I see it, the Royal Voice and old English speech patterns was something reserved specifically for people in authority, even at Luna's time. So, it was something Luna learned rather than the normal, informal speech she uses.
@SlyWit
ReplyDeletePLEASE MORE!!!! Don't leave us hanging!!!
AMAZING!! This could be a book all by itself. Switch the names around, blah blah blah, profit. I have been enchanted by this story from the very beginning and I can see the AMAZING potential it has to wrap it all together into the current MLP timeline. It takes a good writer to take something you already know is going to happen, and want to read it anyway.
ReplyDeletePlease continue. The story has only gotten better as its gone along. I will PAY you for the rest if you want! I'm dead serious, how much do you want? Truly novel quality this.
@Dave
ReplyDeleteOh my! Ha, ha! An offer for money? [At this point there would be some blushing and awkward scratching at the back of the head]. I am truly flattered and I hope to get back on writing this soon. Fortunately, money isn't an issue for me right now, just free time to sleep and create. Otherwise, I'd have to consider it! Not that I'm particularly mad for money, just I never turn down generosity!
Thank you a lot, Dave. I hope to give you more chapters soon.
@SlyWit
ReplyDeletelol, didn't mean to make you uncomfortable. Just saying, if this book was on a shelf at a bookstore, I would have purchased it without thinking twice or checking the price.
I was thinking about this story today (when I'm supposed to be studying for finals). I was trying to figure out where the story goes and concluded that while some things may be imminent (a conflict with the unicorns that somehow involve their parents and the earth ponies) much of the story is set so that you cannot guess what it coming next. You can surmise possibilities (Silver turning? shared love interest and jealousy? Pegasus conflict?) but you have no idea just HOW it will play out. Will Silver defect and teach them more magic, will he join near the end, will he realize his mistakes at the last moments, maybe a death scene?
Beautifully composed my friend. I am envious of your craft. (not meaning to lay it on thick, just enamored by the story)
@Dave
ReplyDeleteOh, no! Not uncomfortable. Comments on my story never make me uncomfortable (except the ones that sound like heavy breathing [which fortunately I have not had yet]). I quite enjoyed reading yours, and I think I understand better what you mean now. I'm glad you think that about the story, as my goal was to treat this like a novel and have it passable as a good one.
As for what will play out . . . there are certainly surprises in store for readers, even ones that think they know what's going to happen next.
I'll get to work on that next chapter as soon as possible
sweet :D
ReplyDelete@SlyWit
ReplyDeleteRing.... Ring.... Ring....
--SlyWit-- "Hello"
--SlyWit-- "Hello?"
Hhhhhhhhhhh...
Hhhhhhhhhhh...
Hhhhhhhhhhh...
Hhhhhhhhhhh...
--click--
(and now you can say you HAVE had that happen! :)
^
ReplyDeleteSorry, It had to be done.
On a completely unrelated note. I can't wait to see the next update! The wait is torture, but the reward is oh so worth it! Keep up the good work! I can't wait to see what the pegasi have in store for our favorite pair of pre-ncesseses.
@richfiles
ReplyDeleteThanks for making me look like an idiot in the library :P. I'm still laughing at your post.
@Dave
ReplyDeleteWell, I'm so very happy I could brighten your day... and apparently your cheeks as well! ☺
How is the newest chapter going? Or is it not going at all, anymore? If you need any prereading or anything....
ReplyDelete@Dusk Star
ReplyDeleteHiatus ends December 16. I'm going to be working on chapters again after that date.
YES :D
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteQuite an impressive work! I have just finished the entirety of all eleven chapters, and I must say you've captured a number of very interesting possibilities for the series' origins.
ReplyDeleteEach step takes the princesses deeper into the varied societies and innate conflicts that go with them, bringing a feeling of life and realism to the world. I can almost see it taking place, each character's voice, and the emotions are so strong that I want to reach out and touch them.
You've done an excellent job that I hope to read more of in the very near future! I'll be watching on dA too!
@SlyWit AWESOME! :D Just finished devouring all 11 chapters, really loving this story. Keep up the great work!
ReplyDeleteIt's stories like this that make me wish I was a good artist. I can't wait until the next update!
ReplyDeleteKeep it up slywit, you're a talented writer. Seriously talented.
ReplyDeleteDoes the new episode throw a wrench into your story?
ReplyDeleteI actually don't think the new canon cripples this fic as badly as I was afraid it would. A little smart writing could smooth over any continuity wrinkles... I"m more concerned about that new princess we keep hearing about. Man, I just don't want this fic to die. It's my favorite "Celestia and Luna Begins" story.
ReplyDelete@CommanderHurricane
ReplyDeleteNo, it doesn't effect it at all, actually. Perhaps, I'll throw in a reference, but it left Celestia and Luna untouched.
@Joe England
Yeah, new alicorns would be weird.
@SlyWit
ReplyDeleteGlad to hear this will live on! I'm looking forward to the next chapter!
Absolutely loving it, and looking forward to furtur chapters!
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely loving it, and looking forward to furtur chapters!
ReplyDeleteThis story is so amazing, I can't wait to see what you'll write next! :D
ReplyDelete@SlyWit
ReplyDeleteThis story is still one of my favorites! I certainly hope that it gets an update soon. I You have no idea what the withdrawal is like... I am always singing it's praises, but it hasn't seen an update for 4 months...
Looks at FiMFIC...
Slywit: "It will still be a couple of days at the very least, before I even hand it in to an editor/proof reader."
Days to reach editors...
DAYS
...
SQUEEEEEEEEEE!!!!
You may take as many days as you like to continue writing. I hope you have a nice long chapter to introduce us to the pegasi. In the mean time, I'll just just be over on my bed shivering into my Celestia + Twilight throw until it comes out.
Days
Days
Days
*shivers*
Oh I hope it's real!
This Hiatus has me scared....
ReplyDelete@Jecht
ReplyDeleteYou can rest easy. I just completed the first draft of chapter 12, which is the single largest chapter I've made.
Madmax is giving me a new cover art image too.
Ah man i was reading fics tonight and was reminded of this old gem. Ive followed this story sense it first appeared and i am incredibly exited for ch 12!!!
ReplyDeleteSly, has the story been updated with chapter 12? I saw the drawfriend, and people said it was updated, but i cant find it. NOOOO
ReplyDelete@Meteor Metal
ReplyDelete12 is on FimFiction and Deviant Art. I'm using those to weed out a few spelling errors. 12 will be up on google docs, here, Saturday, when I fix the errors
So the Unicorns are all Lawful alignment, and the Pegasi are Chaotic alignment. So the racial advantage of the Earth Ponies is that they are not confined to the extremes of the spectrum, and are thus more enlightened in the ways of harmony than the other races could ever hope to be.
ReplyDeleteThe only reason I check the fiction updates is for this story alone. I am so happy that this has been updated. Thanks so much slywit! this story is one of the best. (this, along with dangerous business is the reason i got through school, sane)
ReplyDeleteyay. Moar chapters please :).
ReplyDelete@SlyWit
ReplyDeleteThis is an excellently written story, one of the best I've seen actually. You sir, have earned your 6-star rating. Keep up the good work! I would really hate to see this story go unfinished.
You sir, have written an excellent story. The six-star rating was well placed on it, and I would hate to not be able to finish reading it. Yes, I AM encouraging your continued work. I look forward to reading your next chapter!
ReplyDelete@baconaddict34
ReplyDeleteNever fear. Work is continuing. I've his speed bumps (sigh) again, but the next chapter is well into progress.
Woo, Paradise! Another chapter that fails utterly to disappoint me.
ReplyDeleteActually, I'm writing my own main character in my own ongoing comic in free fall right now, so this update is especially fortuitous. Never pass up a chance for inspiration when it falls in your lap!
ReplyDelete@Joe England
ReplyDeleteIt took me a moment to figure out the compliment in that sentence.
There are only 2 fanfics that make me fanboy sqwee when they come out, drop every plan I had, and start reading. Yours is one of them. Keep up the awesome work!
ReplyDeletewow, is anybody else really starting to hate the pegasi? Cuz I kind of am.
ReplyDelete@sarahstoletheworld
ReplyDeleteNope. You're not the only one. lol
I could understand xenophobia, a few bullies (being the exception rather than the rule), an unwillingness to help an outsider, even outright hostility.
But then when a large group of sober adults get together to bully someone until they break, and then only stop because they get bored, leaving without remorse or apology, then that is a sign that there is something seriously wrong with your society. That somehow, you are enabling a culture of assholes. lol
Just read chap 13, all I have to say is: MOAR
ReplyDeleteDear SlyWit:
ReplyDeleteI just wanted to write to let you know that I've been feeling the effects of withdrawal again. Your story is a fine wine to the spirit. A drug to the soul. It's Magic, like a friend you just want to be with, but must spend weeks, months apart from. Distance only makes the heart grow fonder... But it's a painful thing too.
With that said... I want to see your story again. I miss Celestia. I miss Luna. I want to see them grow. I want to see them develop. I want to see them with the ponies that will mold them into the eventual princesses they will become. I want to see how the tribes interact. I want to see what drives the pegasi to militarism and conquest. What drives the unicorns to their gem obsession, and mountain lives. What shifts earth ponies into agriculture, and does it have to do with a space left by humans. What will happen to humans? What causes the weather and the celestial clockwork to falter in it's natural processes, and how do the pegasus and unicorn races come to learn they can use their natural magic over nature and the skies to exploit the earth ponies. I want to see the passage of time, them first coming to understand that as ponies grow and age, and even die before their eyes, that they appear frozen in youth. Do the sisters flee from other ponies, afraid to always bear their deaths, one upon another? I get the feeling that these events occur far earlier than even the hearth's warming events. I could truly see the sisters leaving ponies to their own devices to avoid that pain. Do they have a mission, responsibilities, a quest that occupies them in those dark times, and when they do return, do they find the ponies still squabbling, before hearth's warming? Have the ponies united of their own accord? Where are the sisters when all this happens, and how does Discord's reign come about? Were they witness to it, or elsewhere, only returning to the horror of chaos ponyfied. How did Discord come to be. Is he the manifestation of the natural chaos that drives the weather and heavens? Discord certainly has an exquisite mastery of both? Does he tire of the endless toll of years? does harmony brought forth by the two sisters bore him to the point that he shirks his natural responsibilities, thus bringing about the chaos that drive the pre hearth's warming disharmony? Is he sated with that chaos till ponies unite themselves... only to return in a physical manifestation to rule in his own pure discord? Does he only come about after hearth's warming, and then what caused the events that led to disharmony then? How do the sisters discover the Elements of Harmony and use them as a tool against Discord. How do ponies react to the sisters, how do they unite as Equestria and princesses? How... how is Luna's fall triggered... escalated...
There are a million and one questions that have yet to be answered. Some questions have likely yet to be even proposed. All I know, is your universe is exquisite. It draws me in, and I want more. I want answers to those many, many questions...
I want to read more! I certainly pray that progress is forthcoming and that you have a good concept and structure to lead your story's direction. This is one story that can not come out fast enough. I certainly hope that your desire to finish never falters, and that your drive to create is never clouded.
Thank you
Your faithful reader...
richfiles
P.S. Your princesses are the best princesses ever!!!
Goes to FiMfiction.net to post comment lamenting my desire to see a new chapter,
ReplyDeletebut express the pain I feel with there being none.
Reloads page after posting comment...
Wait? wut?>./..sdssdf;sldkejfahsdmkfmkl';lprer4435;df
BRAIN.EXE has stopped responding. [Resume] [End Process] [Restart]
Clicks restart...
An update... While I typed about needing to see an update because I miss this story so very much!
@richfiles
ReplyDeleteI made a post, but blogger ated it.
I guess I'll copy and paste the details.
It's probably important for you to know that I plotted most of Paradise long before Season 2 aired. What that means is that I could not take episodes like Hearth's Warming Eve into account, and HWE in particular went a far different direction than I was planning (as opposed to Luna Eclipsed, which felt just perfect). However, I do not feel that Paradise will be incompatible with the events of HWE, and I'll probably even make a passing mention to the story, but I won't be able to cover the three nations and the windigos*.
Discord, however? Yeah, going to be covering him in a big way.
*Probably not going to hurt to mention this, but I consider the events of HWE to predate Celestia by many an age, as a first united era for the ponies. The version we saw in the series was a "nativity" story (IE, many of the details were made up for the sake of convenience as a play. Not the big things like what happened, but little things like the armor, clothing or how the ponies looked).
Once again, I must express how much I love this story. And this latest chapter, a story within a story? (no, I'm not going to make the obvious pun... oh, ok. Storyception!)
ReplyDeleteI like how the explanation does not equal a justification, and there's a bitter irony in the story of Quick Wit that the pegasi are totally missing. The Sun and the Moon may have blessed him (or so the story goes) but they also imparted on him their own paranoia and mistrust, and just like we heard in their own story, being paranoid and mistrustful leaves you vulnerable to being tricked too, just as Quick Wit did with Sun and Moon.
Their tricks may be what keeps them alive from predators, but they also ironically, doom themselves to a life of adversarial conflict from their own kind. The ability to work together allows people to become greater than the sum of their parts, and as individuals, to become more than just a jack-of-all-trades master of none.
The part in the story where Quick Wit talks to a griffin makes me wonder if we'll be seeing that concept again with Celestia and Luna. :)
Why does it say chapter 15 if only up to 14 on FIMFiction?
ReplyDelete@Dr. Whooves
ReplyDeleteMistake, I believe. FimFiction thinks it's up to chapter 15 when it counts the flashback. A quick glance tells people it's at chapter 15, and I have to manually rename it 14
Wait ? ...where is the link to the DA version(s) ?
ReplyDeleteI could swear there was one... I always commented THERE, when I commented on this specific story, I recall.
CH.13 :
ReplyDelete>"Of all the Sun scorched, Moon forsaken, foolish, idiotic herds I've ever seen of in my life!" Celestia marched back and forth
-Yeeeeeah... I still don't get the necessity or interest to make the (early) pegasi race, a bunch of stupid pranksters and airheads... seriously. Not quite sure, if it's some kind of attempt to introduce some humor into the story (or lighten the mood) or what ?
I mean... just because the Earth Ponies were always fighting for their survival, day after day, and that the Unicorns were super serious and secret, that the Pegasi have to be careless clowns, you see ?
I can easily see the pegasi being a relatively carefree race, living amongst the clouds(high altitude) with not many things or predators to worry about... but here? ; the way they are shown is beyond being simply carefree... 2 children almost died and ''they'' essentially are like ''Well, she was dumb, lolz''.
That's pretty much the only ''general'' detail I don't buy/wish to buy, in those last 2 chapters.
@Nova25
ReplyDeleteDid you read chapter 14? It's still there on DA if you wish to follow it, but I'm sort of consolidating all my stuff to FimFiction to reduce the 5 drafts I had floating about when I needed to fix things.
Anyways, if you read chapter 14, you might have more of your questions answered.
12 and 13 are intentional in making the pegasi confusing to both the audience and Celestia. Just ... give me a little faith that their behavior is supposed to be a mystery that unravels, and not an error on my part. This is essentially a cross-cultural first contact, and those always lead to misunderstanding and confusion until the tenets of the society can be understood. i. e. WHY would they act like they did toward the colt nearly dying? would be the right question to ask (and later have answered), rather than "I don't buy it."
Interestingly, your comments did make me want to create a blog post talking about the difference in faith given to published writers and fanfiction.
Anyways, try chapter 14, come back after you see a few more questions.
Also, I'd just like to say that no where where the pegasi ever portrayed as airheaded or stupid. In fact, their very clever in their pranks.
@SlyWit
ReplyDeleteI guess I haven't done so until now so I wanted to tell you this:
Oh man, I really, really love your story! Easily one of my favorite stories. Despite the fact that it is a neat 'Origins of Equestria' Story, that is has incredibly much potential for world building and cultural interaction, it is (from my point of view) really well written.
Sadly I can't point out all the things I liked about the story, partly because I can't remember them, partly because I couldn't phrase them properly, but to point at least one out:
Celestia's character was pretty much the thing i liked most about the story, besides it's 'world-building'-setting. I honestly can't get enough of her. Never.
At this point in the story (Chapter 14, that would be) that is probably the direct opposite to the pegasi. In my eyes, they are incredibly annoying. They are just too self-centered for me to like them I guess.
Although, I don't find them to be unbelievable as a society. If there is no need for them to rely on one another, why should they? If they come along on their own without any problem, it's just natural that that spawned a bunch of egoists.
(Anyone living in a bigger city will have problems even naming all his neighbors, yet alone really knowing them. Because you don't have to rely on them for anything. Maybe one of them has a second key to your front door, in case you loose yours or to water your plants, but in most cases, that's about it.)
Well, that should just be my two bits to the comments, I hope you, SlyWit, read this, so you know how much I appreciate your story and that you know that I hope you will keep on with it for quite some time to come.
:)
@Master Smoulder
ReplyDeleteOh, of course! I read all the comments as greedily as Pinkie Pie devours cake! I appreciate all you just said, and don't worry, next chapter is in the works as we speak (post?).
Yes! The pegasi are kind of meant to be unlikable, with some exceptions, so it's okay to feel that way about them. I hope it creates conflict and sympathy for the sisters having to deal with the strange society. The unicorns were unlikable in a completely different way, with exceptions of individuals, so I hope you keep reading!
@SlyWit
ReplyDeleteWell... for the Unicorns, it was mostly JUST the main authority figures that were ''bad''(as in ''somewhat evil-like'')/possibly unlikable, while the rest of the unicorns were fairly 'ok'/good (if a bit strict for some).
For the Pegasi, so far (CH.12-13) it's the whole thing upside-down... merely a handful are 'ok'/likeable, while the rest of their ENTIRE society is(seems) unlikable(if a bit annoying)...
So... even if it's interesting, it makes the reading of this 'part' of the story somewhat harder to ''appreciate fully'', you see ?
Of course, things will surely return to a more enjoyable state very soon, I'm sure.
Ch.14 :
ReplyDelete>Abandoning the unicorn’s the elements of harmony —the five the ideals of their society
-There’s something strange with the wording here ?
‘’the unicorn’s the elements’’ and ‘’the five the ideals’’... the second ‘the’(in both cases) shouldn’t be there, no ?
I think I saw something like that(odd wording) too, a bit before.
>“Why are you so full of questions?”
-Because they aren’t dumb, and kinda want to survive for more than 10min in the outside world, by adding knowledge to their overall chance of survival ?
I mean... really ? Just because pegasi are ‘’free spirited’’, and like to come and go as they want, that doesn’t mean that THEY don’t ask questions and try to learn things too.
Yeeeah... I somewhat dislike the ‘’attitude’’ they were given. The sooner we move on to something else (another situation, location) the better, I think.
>I do not make it my game to fool others, like most pegasi. I am of an age where I have grown tired of the traps and tricks, so I’ve adopted a different way.
-Ah, finally... a REAL ‘likable’ pegasus. And this one is interesting AND actually has meaningful things to say, a nice change from the other pegasi.
... The legend/story ‘Momma’ tells is actually quite interesting ...
>“What they respect is completely different. Cleverness and capability!”
-Sooo... they essentially leave/ignore anypony who need help, because the pony(ies) isn’t ‘’capable’’ of helping himself or clever enough for it... and leave for dead/don’t try to save ponies(even their own kind; like one that falls from a cliff, by example) that are in difficulty, because the pony(ies) isn’t clever/capable enough to save himself ?
Learn by yourself, or die.
What a ‘’charming’’ mentality... -_-
...you know, I much prefer the modern pegasi. Much more.
>a mare filled with brave self-sacrifice to risk herself with a perilous jump. No, she saw Pink Plummet >too dumb to realize she couldn’t fly.
-Yeeeeah, the message ‘might’ have worked here... if only ANOTHER pegasus, ANY other pegasus would have tried to save the foal. *Not a damn one* even moved a single muscle to save the young falling pegasus !
As someone once said (something near that) : It’s easy to do the morale when you didn’t do anything.
-----
Yeah... ‘Momma’, THE only likable pegasus to have ever existed, apparently ? (unless there are other not-annoying pegasi that tell stories, that we don’t know about yet)
Sigh... They respect ‘cleverness and capability’, but if you don’t have those already, you might as well die/be dead for all they care.
You know, the whole ‘respect for being clever and capable’ would have worked better for the pegasi, if it hadn’t been forced so much in their personality, to the point were it almost becomes a flaw.
But, that just my view on this ‘issues’, the opinion of just 1 person.
Anyway...
The ‘chapter’ itself, overall, was ‘ok’. The section with ‘Momma’ and her stories being the most interesting. A bit easier to enjoy (mostly thanks to ‘Momma’), than the previous 2 chapters.
@Nova25 @Nova25Typo corrected. Should have been "the five ideals of ..."
ReplyDeleteAs for the rest, I debated how much to address, going back and forth on on letting the text defend itself or not. But, you know, sometimes people take actions differently, and that seems to be the case with the pegasi. I'm ... tempted to categorize your reactions as a bit overly harsh at points, sort of a mounting frustration at the pegasi carried over from previous passages.
Though, they are meant to be a frustrating society. Antagonists in a different manner than the unicorns, both societies running contrast to Celestia's and Luna's beliefs, and by extension, often the audiences. But still antagonists. Relax, antagonists are *not* suppose to be liked.
Perhaps, the fact they are ponies and the pegasus ponies of the show are more integrated as heroes, that it's confusing the intended perception of who these guys are.
On to the one thing directly stated in the text:
"*Not a damn one* even moved a single muscle to save the young falling pegasus !"
Here's the spot you may not remember. Celestia made an observation on that previous chapter that no one was there chaperoning the children. Therefore, no one *to* save the foal... which was the reason she took it in her own hooves.
Anyways, more next chapter. You seem to be warming up in part to some of the charactesr, so hopefully that will continue.
Oh, Seth... U Y troll us with update 15 on a story update?
ReplyDeleteSo SlyWit, Is Seth trollin us, or you got us a Chapter 14 (Update 15) incoming?
@richfiles
ReplyDeleteHow I press button again? (It's up now. My fault)
It has been a little while, but I remember most of the story (I think)... even the pegasi (more or less-)sadly.
ReplyDelete-----
CH.15 :
>Ick!” Celestia grimaced and stuck out her tongue, shaking her head side to side. Entirely too long in the past few days had she been up in her head.
-Ick ? ... ... ...ick ? Huhhh... why 'that' specifically ? I mean, her action, when she realizes that she ''thinking too much'' is to say 'Ick'(of all random onomatopoeia) while ''grimacing'' ?
One would think it would have been more like a ''Urgg''(or something) of 'mild exasperation', no ?
>I spoke to them for a while, gathering what I could about flying before that one colt fell off the side.”
-Yeah... Near-death experiences are apparently 'simply hilarious' for pegasi. I still don't know (or get) how this species is still alive, with the way they are described in 'this' story ?
>Here on the mountaintop? Dead rock, prickling pine
-Pinecones are delicious and nutritious(if a bit hard and dry), just ask Trixie... in a few thousand years, at least.
>Abandoning any semblance of maturity, Celestia whined like a filly. “But I don’t wanna talk to the pegasi any mooooooreeeeee …”
-Heh. She should do that more often. ;)
>“My momma told me not to play with you, that any pony who jumps off a cliff without wings is a crazy pony
>I don’t think you’re a crazy pony, you’re a very nice pony, you helped me when I was falling down.”
-''Sorry kid, but your mom is the one that is crazy... and apparently doesn't care much that her son escaped DEATH thanks to her...''
>as they watched her sister weather the pony
-I ''think'' I get the meaning here, but... ''to weather someone'' is a really thing ?
>The shell, as Luna called it, shined like silver in the ambient light.
>Though the shell had three holes in the front, the tail end was missing.
-Aside from the oddity of having many random ''bowls'', with holes in them, out of nowhere... there's the greater, and somewhat confusing, weird fact that there are *METALLIC* ''bowls'', straight from nowhere !
I mean... ?confusion?
After all, absolutely nothing point toward any being on this world, at the current 'Era', with the necessary level of technology/development that would allow for the fabrication of (smooth or not) metallic objects like those ? (Unless : random dimensional/time portal)
@Nova25
ReplyDelete>“I was playing with the element of generosity, trying to find out what it could do.
>I summoned a little fire, then I struck it with a wind spell that I had imbued with generosity.
>“I think the generosity in the spell let the wind give to the fire.”
-I... I don't think the 'Elements of Harmony' work quite like that..?
Emotions for Energy... yeah... but, it's more like the energy from those ''emotions'', that you *gather/collect* behind/from those 'virtues', that is used in spells/magic... rather than directly ''infusing generosity in wind''(just saying it sounds weird), you know ?
>Aloud, she mused, “I wonder if other emotions can be used …”
>“Don’t you remember what Arcane said? Never use an element that is not an element of harmony.”
-That sounds rather dumb... just saying.
I mean, really... While the 'Elements of Harmony' can be the most powerful and ''stable'' source for 'emotions:magical energies', it would be somewhat stupid to limit the potential source(s) of magic energy to just 6 ''virtues''...
>“Don’t you remember what Arcane said? Never use an element that is not an element of harmony.”
-I swear... if ''humans'' start to pop up, even just like a distant reference that they once existed but all died or something...
Well, I'm not quite sure ? Would it be good or bad ? I don't think their existence, in the realm of this story, would be beneficial. *IF*.
-----
Well, this was a rather interesting chapter. Still not really ''warm'' to 'THIS' version of the pegasi, but 'meh'.
I'm a bit 'suspicious' about what may be behind the 'metallic bowls'...
@Nova25
ReplyDelete>-I ''think'' I get the meaning here, but... ''to weather someone'' is a really thing ?
Yep. "to bear up against and come safely through (a storm, danger, trouble, etc.): to weather a severe illness."
I'm going to reply to two things in one go here:
>After all, absolutely nothing point toward any being on this world, at the current 'Era', with the necessary level of technology/development that would allow for the fabrication of (smooth or not) metallic objects like those ?
>-I swear... if ''humans'' start to pop up, even just like a distant reference that they once existed but all died or something...
>Well, I'm not quite sure ? Would it be good or bad ? I don't think their existence, in the realm of this story, would be beneficial. *IF*.
Chapters 1, 3, and 5 mention their existence in passing. Chapter 6 references them having built a lyre which Crescent Change copies. So there are at least a few species that would have technology to pull that off, in universe. And yes, one of them would be humans.
>-I... I don't think the 'Elements of Harmony' work quite like that..?
Lower case; elements of harmony, NOT Elements of Harmony, which do not exist yet. Their use is explained in chapter 6.
>Emotions for Energy... yeah... but, it's more like the energy from those ''emotions'', that you *gather/collect* behind/from those 'virtues', that is used in spells/magic... rather than directly ''infusing generosity in wind''(just saying it sounds weird), you know
You have it just about correct as I described it in story (chapter 6). Luna isn't putting generosity itself into the magic, but the emotional elements that are expressed through being generous. Short hand: She's putting the element of generosity into the spell, imbuing her will with extra aspects.
>-That sounds rather dumb... just saying.
I mean, really... While the 'Elements of Harmony' can be the most powerful and ''stable'' source for 'emotions:magical energies', it would be somewhat stupid to limit the potential source(s) of magic energy to just 6 ''virtues''...
Arcane described in Chapter 6 that these are the only ones they found to be safe. That using an element that's not one of the elements of harmony "changes you." He seems to imply this is not a good fate at all.
Which is why:
>“Don’t you remember what Arcane said? Never use an element that is not an element of harmony.”
is NOT a reference to humans.
Okay, I think that's everything I can address in your post that is directly stated in the story itself. To go beyond that, I'd be giving more opinions than letting the text speak for itself.
@SlyWit
ReplyDelete>Chapters 1, 3, and 5 mention their existence in passing. Chapter 6 references them having built a lyre
-Really ? Well, that's one detail I didn't remember... maybe because it wasn't really 'that' important in this story.
>Lower case; elements of harmony, NOT Elements of Harmony
-...you know what I mean. -_-
>Short hand: She's putting the element of generosity into the spell, imbuing her will with extra aspects.
-Yeah... Personally, I supposed it was just her ''way'' to explain it, that 'something new' she just discovered.
>Arcane described in Chapter 6 that these are the only ones they found to be safe. That using an element that's not one of the elements of harmony "changes you."
-Another tiny detail I didn't remember *shrug*.
But, I still say that this ''ANY other element, other than the main 6 elements, is super-crazy-bad/dangerous !11'', from the unicorns, is just them being overly (stupid with fear)superstitious.
I mean, sure there are a few 'bad emotions' to balance the 'good emotions', but there's a LOT of other 'neutral and good emotions'.
http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_emotions
>>“Don’t you remember what Arcane said? Never use an element that is not an element of harmony.”
>is NOT a reference to humans.
-Huh ? Ok ? I don't know why 'using an element not from the main 6 elements' would be related to humans, but whatever ?
@Nova25
ReplyDelete>-Huh ? Ok ? I don't know why 'using an element not from the main 6 elements' would be related to humans, but whatever ?
Ahh, Sorry. When you put those two ideas next to each other, I thought it was related.
>But, I still say that this ''ANY other element, other than the main 6 elements, is super-crazy-bad/dangerous !11'', from the unicorns, is just them being overly (stupid with fear)superstitious
I would suggest that there is perhaps more to the story than an emotion simply being "good" or "bad." But you'll have to wait to find out more.
-...you know what I mean. -_-
Sorry, I didn't. Someone else had forgotten about the difference between Elements of Harmony and the elements of harmony.
It has been such a LONG time... and I have read so little stories in an almost as long while...
ReplyDeleteI now only remember skeleton-of-stories, general frames with the occasional detail(s), and old comments can only do so much to refresh one's memory.
But whatever... 1 story, 1 thing at the time.
-----
CH.16 :
-Really nothing that special to note here, this time... Except maybe that I hope those tiny hints about 'Momma' being ''old'' and ''a bit weak(from not eating as much as usual)'' are nothing to worry about.
.
.
CH.17 :
>She never could win. Celestia had been stronger and faster from days before her earliest memory.
-Huh..? I'm pretty sure to remember that it's Luna that learned the fastest about Magic AND got her wings first. Also, she got friendly with the pegasi much faster and easier than Celestia.
From how it looks, it's more like '1 win, then it's the other, then the other, and etc..', and also it's never really 100% win/lose.
>Time distorted into an oblong shape.
-Ehhhh ? A bit of an odd and randomly formulated phrase, really ?
>She lowered her head, saddened. Until her horn tapped the stone.
>“Maybe I can free her.”
-Most probably 'Philomena' ? Her/his (future) parent ?
>Let’s make it laugh.
-She's gonna make the stone... ''crack up'' ? ;) * http://instantrimshot.com/ *
>“It’s a chicken.”
>Blinking, Celestia stared. “Umm, what?”
>It’s half chicken.” A smile found its way to her lips, stretching wider and wider until Luna laughed.
-Nothing else left to do after such a terrifying event, than to have a good nervous laugh... especially when the mortal threat is discovered to be half-chicken. ;)
-----
It was 'ok', pretty interesting. The part with the ''looming threat'' of the griffin had been expected, and it was well done/proportionate for a ''first encounter''.
The cockatrice thing was also pretty good, though I'm wondering a bit about the phoenix.