Fluttershy has leveled up once again! Remember back in the day when just Twilight Sparkle intimidated her? It's amazing how much character development these ponies go through.
So lets get it started! After the page break as always.
I'm going to begin with the background ponies, because this episode was completely filled with all sorts of references. First off is of course, Lyra. In a few of the beginning scenes, she can be seen reaching toward her cup, as if she desperately needs hands. You might assume it's just Lyra being lazy, but then we get this...
Bonbon's saddle bag definitely has Lyra's cutie mark on it. We can't stop there though!
They seal the deal with yet another Lyra and Bonbon sequence. They can be seen in the background blabbering away for a good minute or two. I think half the fun of these episodes each week is just watching the background characters. This episode in particular seemed to have a full on story going on out there.
Of course, we can't forget derpy, who totally has a muffin bag clip. Whoever tossed that on there deserves a medal. I really hope the recent Derpy drama doesn't stop these at all. I'm cool with her not having lines, but this was amazing.
Also, no Asparagus =[
And we can't forget the derp eyes. Our little waldo reference is hopefully here to stay.
I'm sure these two are a reference to something...
And our new villian/antagonist is.... a minotaur! Gotta love all these fantasy creatures. He definitely plays the part. Not to mention the Mr. T reference.
As for Fluttershy herself, she spent most of the episode rollin with Assertiveshy, but I saw a small amount of Flutterbitch sneak out later on!
And of course, the Flutterhulk reference later on was pretty awesome. This one in particular is a direct one for one reference.
Obligatory awkward screenshot.
We also have the return of "that" Rarity. I'm not too sure if I like it, or dislike it, but she does seem to use it quite a bit!
We also have...socks. Yes, socks are now canon. For some unknown reason, they are human socks, but I for one welcome our new Twilight Sparkle in socks overlord.
We were introduced to goats for the first time this episode. I'm honestly having a hard time determining their intelligence level, but it's not lookin good...
Equestria in general seems to be much more cutthroat than we used to believe. I remember talking about it like it was some sort of paradise back in the early days of the fandom. These merchants are just straight up greedy though.
In the end, Fluttershy solves things with her good old stare power. Have you seen the Fighting is Magic rendition of this? It's totally not overpowered at all. This is yet another episode without poor Twilight Sparkle. I wonder how she is handling the lack of fame these days?
Overall this was definitely a solid one. It's about time we got something focused on Ponyville's animal lover for season two. It looks like another is coming up in a few weeks. They definitely seem to be scheduling each character in bundles this time around.
And I'll leave you with the best reference of all! Check that out below.
344 comments:
@Adrian Brony
ReplyDeleteI reviewed this scene in HD, and there is one straw, and at no point do they share the straw. I want it to happen too, but in this case it didn't.
This episode was hilarious! The catch phrases were great! Who came up with those?
ReplyDeleteThe soft Fluttershy voice saying, "Cut in line, I take whats mine!" The follow up scene of her flying into the cab was extremely funny.
The character Iron Will was well conceived, and the voice actor for him was amazingly funny.
Who do I have to thank for those hilarious catch phrases?
Just something I thought I'd point out, because I haven't seen anyone else mention this yet... Fluttershy's "as Celestia as my witness" line was also done by Rarity I believe in Sisterhooves social. I believe she said "as Celestia is my witness I'll never go sisterless again." Gone With the Wind reference that has been done before. I'm certainly not critizing, mind you, just noting.
ReplyDelete"Nopony else gives a flying feather about"
ReplyDeleteCursing is cannon.
A great episode, extending the emotional range of primary characters as well as the realities of Equestrian life. Contrary to some, this actually improves my already considerably high opinion of Equestria and its inhabitants. Perfection or paradise is dull, and clearly, the ponies still have some ways before full harmony is attained. Good on them, say I!
ReplyDeleteAlso interesting to see the number of speaking races extended. As for the minotaur indicating humans - not really. We know (from Best Night Ever) that they have primates, so a minotaur could just have simian traits. More likely, it is us, who in our mythology have tried to explain the various mythological creatures as amalgamations of animals known to us. Minotaurs, manticores, etc. are naturally occurring creatures in Equestria, and need not be explained in terms of borrowed body parts.
I may have watched the sequence where Fluttershy brings the hammer down on Pinkie Pie and Rarity ten times. That pony sure has a way with words. Excellent writing, excellent voice acting (just the growl in Fluttershy's voice as she says 'nopony' is a delight). It seems as if Fluttershy is the only pony (baring Princess Luna), who at will can incorporate sound effect (e.g., thunder) into their voice? Clearly, Best Night Ever was not a fluke in this regard. Powerful stuff indeed. She is, by leaps and bounds, best and most awesome pegasus. My only peeve with the episode was that Angel was not brought to justice, but then pet abuse (however well deserved) is hardly a message the show wants to send.
Anyone notice how Fluttershy flies better when she is being assertive?
How Rarity can be accused of gold digging (or, Celestia/Luna forbid, sluttiness? Wut?) is beyond me. That does not make any sense at all. She charms the nerdy pony to part with his asparagus, and compensates him the full amount. He does not suffer a loss, and has the pleasure of conversing, however briefly, with a beautiful mare. He could have refused the trade, but chose not to. Had Rarity taken the merchandise by the power of her considerable charms, she would be in the wrong, but she doesn't. She has used her charm before, but never abused it. That the graceful and the charming will have an easier way in life in some regards than the uncouth and the offensive is hardly cause for concern, neither on Earth nor in Equestria.
@Fireseeker
ReplyDeletewell, to be faith rarity and pinkie pie took a look at the audience, so I guess they both broke the fourth wall there.
Don't think anyone will read a comment buried this deep, but I found it amusing that when Rarity and Pinkie go over to Fluttershy's cottage, it's very similar to Rarity's breakdown from season 1, just with Rarity and Pinkie playing the roles of Twilight and Rainbow respectively.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the sub-analysis on defending Rarity's actions, I'm still the same.
ReplyDeleteShe's irredeemable. Building up her character development only just to have it all crumbling down. Still looks like a gold-digging harlot, and no amount of white-knighting will change my opinion on this "issue".
Hell, she's probably better off as a villain, lol.
@Wolf of Twilight
ReplyDeleteThat's natural. To dislike a character for mistreating a character you like after we are all biased and no one's going to hate you for that I mean they are animated characters -_-. I don't necessarily watch MLP for the cheerfulness more than I do for the ponies growing personalities, personally seeing flutterbitch in this episodes reminds me about how real people will eventually snap. After all, MLP's major emphasis is to demonstrate morals not engulf the viewer in a paradise. I think, using that form of logic while watching MLP makes every episode a good episode. (My opinion of course).
If animals learn they can push you around they will, even bunnies, so Im not surprised one bit by them, if anything the fact that Angel helps her out shows that he at lest gives something back unlike all the other animals in her house.
ReplyDeleteHave any of you ever said something mean to your friends and didn't mean it? We all have been a FLutterbitch at some point in time.
Yes yes, im actually here to show Fluttershy a little love for once. Pretty solid episode, and for once the in a Fluttershy episode she didn't have the show stolen by everypony else. Anywho, what she said to Rarity and Pinkie Pie was a little much (the only 2 ponies with jobs gets called usless by the usless jobless hippie pony was a little insane) but all around Fluttershy was on her game thiw episode and I hope she keeps this little bit of character growth (plus please kill Angel, he is such a bitch!)
ReplyDeleteI gotta say...my favorite part was definitely when Fluttershy deconstructed Pinkie and Rarity's entire premise xD
ReplyDeleteAlso if a guy is stupid enough to let a girl sweet talk him out of something then he deserves to loose what ever it was.
ReplyDelete@Sparklin Water Productions
ReplyDeleteThat further proved Rarity being useless.
Fluttershy already knows as much about fashion as her, without all the air of shallowness/pettiness/whatever around her.
@Vanishing
ReplyDeleteMs. Faust approved of all the Season 2 scripts herself before she quit...
Great episode. I can totally relate to Fluttershy, and... well, I knew ponies in Equestria could be dicks, but this episode... YIKES. Not that the episode changed my opinion of Equestria at all. Corruption of any kind is natural in all societies. Why should Equestrian society be an exception?
Not sure if best episode, or worst episode...
ReplyDeleteI am sad that Rainbow didn't show up and take Fluttershy to task after FS made Rarity and Pinkie cry. Seems like something Rainbow would do.
I like this cutthroat Equestria! Sure, most North Americans couldn't believe how harsh the bazaar was for a decided lack of relation, but I for one like this direction!
ReplyDeletePonies with purpose! I mean, as opposed to simply existing in a whimsical utopia.
@Unknown
ReplyDeleteI'm not buying that shy people are angry people in general. And note our specific case is in direct contradiction to Discord's failed temptation of Fluttershy. This episode's take on Fluttershy was something quite new.
I'm looking forward to the Hurricane Fluttershy episode, because the synopsis suggests a far better view of her: Fluttershy is self-conscious and bashful. She asserts herself just fine when she's confident in her expertise, or when her love for nature pulls her out of self-monitoring.
@Diaphone
ReplyDeleteThat was my first thought as well. Like, what-evvver!
The references in this episode were outstanding. Here's hoping next weeks has some BTTF ref's in it.
ReplyDeleteAnd congratulations to RBIGisEPIC for their win of 1 million internets for that video.
Aww, no mention of Colton and Daisy being together again? They are such an overlooked couple. They're like always together as much as BonBon and Lyra.
ReplyDelete@mobtuse
ReplyDeleteWell, trolling is easy, when you don't actually defend your claimed position, but just argue by fiat. You could try harder, you know.
Great episode!! Things would of been so.. SO different if Twilight or Rainbowdash was in it (ESPECIALLY RAINBOWDASH).
ReplyDeleteI'm rather baffled at all the people that are complaining about how this episode "ruined" their utopian vision of Equestria. News flash people: Equestria, nor any particular part of it (Ponyville included), never was a utopian paradise at all, ever. If it was, Nightmare Moon never would have happened (because Luna would have felt appreciated for her work on the night), Discord and the Wendigos wouldn't exist, Trixie and The Flim Flam Brothers wouldn't have tried to take advantage of Ponyville like they did, Gilda, Jet Set, and Upper Crust wouldn't have been annoying pricks, the pegasus selling that single cherry wouldn't have tried to bilk Fluttershy out of a lot of money after finding out how desperate she was for it, and so on. Places like the Everfree Forest, Froggy Bottom Bog, and Ghastly Gorge wouldn't be as dangerous as they are, and the various creatures that live in them that partly make them so dangerous wouldn't exist.
ReplyDeleteEquestria isn't a candy walk-in-the-park, it's as dangerous and (potentially) a cold a place as our world is, but that's one of the many reasons why I think Studio B does such a amazing job with this show: it's showing kids that even a "fantasy" world like Equestria can be dangerous, that the ponies have flaws and traits they can relate to, and that the morals that they are trying to teach have (mostly) actual applications to situations they really are likely to face in their lives.
As for the people white-knighting for Rarity's actions in this episode (in regards to the nerdy pony), that, too, truly baffles me, but I suppose it shouldn't, seeing as I'm aware of the whole "Beauty is Untarnished" trope that ALWAYS gets a pass when it's a girl using her charms to get what she wants. Yes, she paid him the bit he paid for the asparagus, but that does not excuse her action. What do we know of whatever reason he had to want/need the asparagus for? We don't. For all we know, he could have needed it for some miracle cure to save a relative, and now that he doesn't have it, his relative is going to die. Good job, Rarity. On the other hand, he could just have wanted it because he, too, was going to make the exact same salad as Fluttershy. Does he deserve it any less than Fluttershy? No. Again, good job Rarity.
Saying "he should have known better" is like saying "you should have known not to wear such a sexy outfit" to someone who is a victim of sexual harassment. Which, I will point out, is EXACTLY WHAT RARITY DID TO THAT GUY! That's what you wanna white-knight? That's the message you wanna support showing to young girls? "Little Suzy can get away with anything as long as she bats her eye lashes as a guy they can visibly see that doesn't get much female attention because of some circumstances that may or may not be under his control to appear attractive?" Really?
This episode was really good, but those two points about the fan reaction kinda stuck in my craw a bit. When I saw what Rarity did, I just shook my head and put on yet another demerit on Rarity's score card, and dropped her a level or two on the Best Pony Rankings™. She was somewhere in the middle thanks to Sweet and Elite, but she just lost a good bit of ground just for that marketplace scene.
Pinkie Pie was doing what any experienced, smart individual that's been to any marketplace of that type would do: haggling. There's nothing wrong with that.
@shadowfalcon76
ReplyDeleteTo continue because posts can only be so long...
Iron Will. This guy. He needs to return because he's a stand-up, solid character. I liked him a lot. He's not a villain. Hell, he's not even an antagonist (that role this episode belongs to Fluttershy herself). He's just a guy that hit on the fact that his motivational speaking is good to help meek ponies stand up for themselves, and that it's a positive, much-needed service throughout Equestria, and that he can make decent money from it. Is he somewhat aggressive? Yes, but most people like him tend to be by nature, otherwise how could they sell what they sell if they didn't live what they sold themselves? Is he the guy that made Fluttershy into Flutterbitch? No, she did that to herself when she didn't control her hidden anger issues. I did like how, when he came to collect, he discussed the issue rationally of payment after she stood firm on her stance of not being satisfied, then simply moved on when it was apparent that she rightfully called in the satisfaction guarantee he offered. That's not the mark of a villain or an antagonist, it's just a guy trying to collect what he honestly believed was due to him, and being rational and reasonable about it when he didn't get it.
@62835fdc-3fb1-11e1-9fc6-000bcdcb2996
ReplyDeleteThis is my first time online that I've seen someone with a xUID as a username.
I think the socks are for minotaurs or some other mythical creatures.
ReplyDeletehey seth, did u miss pip XD or just really hate him
ReplyDeleteA "small" amount of Flutterbitch sneak out? I don't know what episode you were watching... lol Quite a good amount Flutterbitch was incorporated into this episode. :P
ReplyDeleteI love all the Lyra and Bonbon. They're just too cute. Especially coupled together.
For Rarity using her looks and charm to get what she wants. It's sorta just part of her character. One of the beauties who use their charm and charisma to sway others. Just how some people in real life use those assets in the same way.
And sure, why not socks? Hooves get cold too y'know? As for them looking human, well, to play the realism bit for a moment here, they would need to be easily recognizable to everyone as socks. lol
Dat Twilight image snuck in.
Just like the real world, there's some not-as-honest and not-as-friendly ponies in Equestria too. The merchants are just one example of their being ponies out for just their own personal gain.
Of course everyone seemed to really love the old Bugs/Loony Toons-esque scene with Pinkie and the merchants. Good to see there's some others in the community that can appreciate some good classic stuff. Example is also the I Love Lucy reference. :)
As for Twilight. She's a humble pony who's always in our hearts whether she's on the screen or not. <3
@shadowfalcon76
ReplyDeleteIronically, the way Iron Will acted when faced with an unhappy customer is the exact opposite of how most of his real world analogs act. I found it pretty funny that the motivational speaker/pitchman was a far more reasonable and understanding businessperson than the ponies in the market.
@LS Ramos
ReplyDeleteYeah, that did strike me as funny how that worked out. I would have liked to see the scene of IW going to market, and how that would have played out.
@Niels Olof
ReplyDeleteTry harder? How?
And besides, it's easy to rip on Rarity's character when she makes it too easy to do such.
Sweet & Elite: doesn't deserve to have such good friends, should have been chewed out massively, regardless of arguments saying she's "smart" enough to have felt super-guilty w/o being directly called out on it. And don't pull the "crabs-in-a-barrel" argument to dispute this, too easy a cop-out. Easiest character for me to say I can actually legitimately hate. It doesn't even take much exaggeration of her bad traits to effectively make a villain.
Yaaay for Lyra and Bon Bon sighting! As well as Derpy! :D
ReplyDeleteI didn't notice Lyra reaching for the cup or Derpy's muffin bag. Good catches!
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's necessary to leave these references in the background -- it's easy to get burned on these little controversies, but it was really a minor thing overall. Believe me that more controversial shows than MLP get edited after first broadcast sometimes -- that even happened with South Park not long ago.
I dunno, Iron Will wasn't really any more of an antagonist than, say, Photo Finish.
ReplyDeleteAnyhow, good writeup.
guys... Hey guys!
ReplyDeleteWhat if everyone at the market was so rude in this episode because they all took iron will's seminar TOO!!! 0_0
@Mike
ReplyDeleteExcept he didn't put it on until after that scene had taken place.
This was all in all an amazing episode. A few things i want to note though, first how could Seth not point out pipsqueak or magnum P.I. Second how could he not point out how Rarity is getting fourth wall lessons from pinkie. On the subject of those two has anyone else noticed (please comment if your reading this) that sense the last round up Pinkie pie and Rarity have been hanging out a bit more? Finally as for con artist Rarity i like it but i don't want to see to much of it because that will give the Rarity haters more ammunition. finally Bless Celestia derpy is safe!
ReplyDelete@The Blue Horse
ReplyDeleteThey've been hanging out together far longer than that. Check out Return of Harmony pt 2, chasing Discorded!Rainbow Dash. They could have had a scene or two before that even (I just don't remember right off the top of my head if they have, though).
@SW_frenchpony No way. That's just too awesome. Best pony.
ReplyDeleteThe LyraxBon-Bon bit is really cool, the person who did that needs all the internets.Same goes for the muffin on Derpy's bag.
@Ozimul
ReplyDeletePets seem to have high intelligence, heck even the parasprites were help Rarity make dresses and they were basically cute locust.
This was the first episode that I've seen that I didn't really like the first time I saw. A second viewing has greatly improved my opinion of it.
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._Lee_Ermey
ReplyDelete....... LOOK. I'm questioning its legitimacy, but if this is true, EPIC BRIX HAVE BEEN SHAT.
@etnoika
ReplyDeleteor Hulk Hogan
@Ryptyde
ReplyDeleteOK, now THAT is something worth verifying. Daynm!
R. Lee Emery can't get much more awesome. I should know; he's been trying forever. He, Chuck Norris, and a select few others have been soaking up all the awesome in the world for a while now.
@Ryptyde
ReplyDeleteIf that is true, then that is awesome. Has there been any confirmation from Studio B?
There you go guys...Hasbro is still tipping their hat to us because who was it that started the whole thing about Derpy having her obsession for Muffins? Brony's! That muffin bag is a wave to us.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the other references, I caught Mr.T one but I also think that Iron Will is also a reference to WWE Wrestler Dwayne Johnson aka The Rock.
The Lonely Man reference when the song I knew that it sounded familiar but I couldn't put my thumb on where I heard it. Now I know.
As for the Stallion with the glasses and bow tie, I have to say he reminds me of Jerry Lewis in the Original 1963 film The Nutty Professor. But that's just me, I don't know if anyone else thought that about him. But it was a great episode.
I freely admit to blurting out "duck season, rabbit season" during the tomato scene when I first watched it
ReplyDeleteThe Duck Season video does seem funny, although it was Mr. Galaxy who made the video first.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteOh! About those two mares with the wild hairdoos and surfboard and Pink Palm Tree cutie marks. I thought two things southern california surfing and 1980's fashion. I think that last one lands closer to the target because the way their manes are styled seems to reminisce the hair styles of of the 1980's as well as the color of their manes. Yes I know that the other ponies have colorful hair like that too. But anyways, I want to point out the blue mare's zig zag shirt is almost typical of clothing styles of the 80's as well. For some reason I thought when I saw them the TV show Saved By The Bell came to mind.
ReplyDelete@shadowfalcon76
ReplyDeleteThe fact that Equestria isn't perfect is exactly why I like it, the same way I like the characters for their flaws, I don't get why people have ever considered it to be some flawless utopia, otherwise that would be too boring and would become the same kind of show that Ms. Faust and I'm sure the rest of Studio B did not want to make
@anthropony
ReplyDelete"Charming" AND repaying pony for asparagus so friend who was rightfully in line could get it = gold digging?
Damn man, you really toss labels like that around freely don't you?
Lyra sitting.
ReplyDeleteGuys,look who else is here.
PIP.
Pip is still alive.
I'm happy.
@Ryptyde
ReplyDeleteIf that is indeed legit then that is truly awesome
@Justin
ReplyDeleteI just get a bit disappointed when I see a lot of people tend to forget that Equestria isn't supposed to be perfect or lacking in flaws, and that its residents are no different. It's a good thing that Studio B and DHX take the time to show these things, to make it easier for the target audience to relate to the stories told. It's the mark of a good show.
Has anyone mentioned that this was also a return of Flutterkin/Dovahshy? After all she did a lot of shouting this episode.
ReplyDelete@shadowfalcon76
ReplyDeleteYea I agree totally, and reading some of the comments I understand that a few were legitimately uncomfortable with some things about this episode (Angel slapping Fluttershy, Fluttershy verbally abusing Pinkie and Rarity) but I think that the way the team tackled the problems in this episode was handled well. See I'm a lot like Fluttershy in which I keep my emotions bottled up sometimes and when I was younger I would explode what Fluttershy learned this episode, what I eventually learned, and what hopefully some of the kids that watched this episode learned is to not let that happen. Don't be a pushover, but don't be a jerk. For that reason I think this episode was great in that it tackled a real problem that many kids (and adults) deal with and its that repeatability that makes this show great.
@Justin
ReplyDeleteNow as for me personally I enjoy dark humor and this episode had a good bit of it so that made it great in my eyes, I know some don't like it but oh well Love and Tolerate
Looking at the socks carefully I have analyzed that they have hoof shaped red tips and are primarily for the back legs of a young pony.
ReplyDelete@D. Shadows
ReplyDeleteSo no Human Illuminati then?
@Justin
ReplyDeleteNope. Just the syndicate of flying purple pony eaters, so it's nothing to worry about. Nothing strange to see there.
Some people here are REALLY stretching to Jake the Dog limits to take a rip at Rarity.
ReplyDelete@pmcollectorboy
ReplyDeleteAdventure Time reference and calling out Rarity haters at the same time- NICE!
/)
@Justin
ReplyDeleteExcept all I see are legitimate criticisms of Rarity's actions in this episode. If calling her out for being underhanded and unfair to that nerd pony is "hating", then yes, I'm a hater.
@shadowfalcon76
ReplyDeleteWell calling her unfair is one thing, calling her a slut is another 'm not saying everyone should like Rarity and having legitimate criticism of her actions entirely welcomed, but just blatantly calling her a terrible character (like a few have) is different
@shadowfalcon76
ReplyDeleteSee I wouldn't call that hating, that's just you legitimately not liking her actions and I know that some didn't think well of her method of dealing with the situation with the nerdy pony and the asparagus (I didn't see any problem with it but that's just my opinion) therefore anyone who criticizes that is fine, what I didn't like was just simply labeling her a slut
"What do we know of whatever reason he had to want/need the asparagus for? We don't. For all we know, he could have needed it for some miracle cure to save a relative, and now that he doesn't have it, his relative is going to die. Good job, Rarity."
ReplyDelete"Saying "he should have known better" is like saying "you should have known not to wear such a sexy outfit" to someone who is a victim of sexual harassment. Which, I will point out, is EXACTLY WHAT RARITY DID TO THAT GUY!"
You see legitimate. I see stretching.
@Justin
ReplyDeleteYeah, I can see just throwing around labels wantonly can cause problems. I personally like to examine, and if need be, attack the actions taken before I go after the individual. Circumstances and context tends to pull characters out of what people are comfortable with a lot of times, and this episode did that for a good number of ponies.
@pmcollectorboy
ReplyDeleteOk, you want an easy test to see if what I said was a stretch? Reverse the genders of the two, and then tell me you and others would still condone that action from Male!Rarity to a female nerd.
Just because Rarity is female doesn't give her a pass to do what she did and not have people raise issue with it.
So much yes!
ReplyDelete@shadowfalcon76
ReplyDeleteEh I watch tons of anime that have bishonen (pretty-boy characters for all you non-anime watchers) that use their looks to flatter women, one of my all time favorite shows is Ouran High School Host Club and to be honest just as Fluttershy could pass for a Moe girl character Rarity, if she were male, would be like that. In all using her charm to get the asparagus from the nerdy pony, while still giving him the money for it, and actually complementing him and brightening his day a little seems acceptable to me. I know not everyone agrees but hey diversity breeds awesomeness.
@Justin
ReplyDeleteYeah, I've seen those kinds of anime as well, and the difference I can see is that a good portion of them have the women subject themselves to that kind of attention willingly, and when they don't (i.e. the guys foist their unwanted attention on the ladies), the guys do indeed come off and are called out for being rather sleazy. It is especially true if the attentions given are as empty and shallow as what Rarity displayed. It's why I don't watch that kind of anime much (besides having a lot already to do on my plate; lack of time). The same situation is present here.
I guess the problem I'm having here is that since I know it isn't sincere, it's just Rarity taking advantage of the guy when she knows his ego and self-esteem are probably in the pits, and in the long run, this doesn't help at all (in fact, it'll probably drive them lower and paint a bad image of her in his mind if he's a Ponyville citizen when he comes to realize that he's out a bushel of asparagus).
It must not be such an easy test because I'm still not seeing the justification of your assessment and certainly not the context of your words. Relative is going to die and sexual harassment? Really? Where was all this flaming when Rarity was using her wiles to secure labor for the chariot to the Grand Galloping Gala? And yes. She did ASK if the stallions would like to help her out. This episode had the same thing. If Rarity had done it differently and explicitly stated, "Excuse me, but my friend Fluttershy dearly wanted that asparagus you're holding. Would you mind parting with it?" we'd still get people accusing Rarity of wrongdoing.
ReplyDelete@shadowfalcon76
ReplyDeleteI think we need t accept that just like we appreciate that Equestria is flawed so to is its citizens. Some may have taken Rarity's actions as shallow and manipulative, while others saw it as her attempt to help Fluttershy. Some people are just not gonna approve of what she did while others will and that's fine. I guess for me I can see both sides of the discussion but I lean towards one side in particular (though I admit my love for Rarity might make me biased to want to defend her) but I really do think what she did wasn't entirely wrong, but I know some will disagree.
Actually these post-episode discussions are one of the things I look forward to all week and to me it further shows how brilliant this show is since it provides us with a world and characters that we can dissect and discuss with various degrees of depth, and almost everyone here is cordial so that's another reason I love to come here.
@pmcollectorboy
ReplyDeleteI wasn't a brony when season one hit. I do have the same criticism of Rarity's action in that episode as well, but this isn't the Best Night Ever thread.
Way to latch onto only half of what I said and take it out of context for the sake of your argument, there. As I said, we don't know the circumstances of why he purchased the asparagus, and it's doesn't matter. He still had every right to it as Fluttershy did, he just got to it before she did, and had no reasonable idea that she was going for it as well.
And the sexual harassment statement stands as is, in full effect. Try exactly what Rarity did in any workplace environment, and you try fighting off the lawsuit. Protip: you'll lose. Another protip: it doesn't matter you think of what sexual harassment is, it's what others think it is, and it's ESPECIALLY what the victim thinks it is. That's all the courts, employers, and other people in charge will see.
Every single statement I've said about Rarity's actions stand.
@Justin
ReplyDeleteHope I'm not interrupting or anything, but mind if I theorize a bit?
Okay, it's gonna look like I'm grasping at straws for a bit, but here goes:
That bit you mentioned about the flattery giving the nerdy dude at least a bit of an ego boost/confidence builder, combined with the flack/criticism Rares has gotten for it...
...Shouldn't we give at least some benefit of the doubt/credit to the nerd pony? Because, if I read into it a bit deeper (maybe too deep, as yes this is still a cartoon), the criticism of Rarity's actions, (some legitimate, but some blatant hate) might also set up an undercurrent of assumption that, Rarity set up the nerd dude for a big fall, instead of starting a path upwards (in self-esteem).
Combine what I said in the above text-block, with a few comments a day back, saying that some people bristled up after seeing Rares' actions probably because they themselves were burnt like that sometime in the past, maybe there's a subtle message to be said.
That message could possibly be along the lines of:
"Yeah, I don't know exactly if what he/she said was sincere or not, but hell, it made me look in the mirror, and, regardless of sincerity, maybe I could use that flattery as a stepping stone.
I get shot down the first time after showing off that confidence spawned by the flattery, fine. I brush the dirt off my shoulders, fix myself up according to what I feel may still be missing, and give it another go. I'm not letting one failure get in the way of possible success somewhere down the line."
Apologies if my argument looks too damn flimsy, just thought I'd give it a shot.
TL;DR: Might wanna give the nerd pony a bit more credit. Maybe it actually did boost his confidence significantly enough. Because while this cartoon does show us it ain't always gonna be perfect, we can still be optimistic, right?
Maybe, just maybe, nerd pony's (theoretically) gonna be just fine, maybe better, after that whole asparagus fiasco.
@Justin
ReplyDeleteYeah, not everyone is gonna agree, but at least one can be civil about it. I can see where people see this as harmless flirting, I just happen to fall in the camp of seeing it as Rarity taking advantage of the guy, which for me, overrides anything innocuous about it.
@80and56
ReplyDeleteIt's possible, and honestly, it could go either way. We don't have any sort of indication of what would happen (random background pony is random). But there is a large chance that if the nerd pony does get it in his mind that "Hay! That hot mare thought I was a studly stallion! Maybe I should go with that," and then later tries to capitalize on that confidence and continuously gets shot down, that's gonna paint a bad picture of Rarity as he begins to realize that she just played him for a fool, over a single bit's worth of asparagus. While this may only be a cartoon, it's a cartoon being shown to impressionable young girls in the context of it still being something of an educational show (educational in the context of teaching rather useful life lessons).
Should some girl hit upon the idea that what Rarity did should be emulated in Real Life™, that potentially could cause a lot of problems.
@80and56
ReplyDeleteI think your argument is interesting and sadly since we'll probably never see the Male Pony again we'll never know to what extent (positive or negative) Rarity's flattery had on him, I just think she was genuinely trying to do the right thing she thought
-hey I can help teach Fluttershy how to get what she wants
-hey I can also be nice to this guy maybe he could use some encouragement
sure there is some patronizing assumptions that he needed encouraging to begin with but when she asked if he had ever been complemented before he said know, in the end
-Fluttershy gets her asparagus
-For whatever reason he wanted it he still gave it up so it could not been so he could cure cancer or he was starving
-He walked away with money to buy something else and he felt pretty good about himself and sometimes we could all use that
so measuring all that I see Rarity's actions has being alright
Pfft. Got bored, decided to come back, see if this thread picked up any bit.
ReplyDeleteSweet & Elite's ending sealed Rarity as a crummy character for me, and yesterday's ep only reinforced my stance.
You don't even have to exaggerate her bad qualities just to get a new villain (whether legitimately threatening, or ineffective) out of her character. She was the quickest one to get Discord-ized w/o direct touch from the baddie himself, wasn't she?
She wasn't even verbally "taken out to the woodshed" at the ending of Sweet & Elite like she should have been, how the hell did she not get called out right after? Getting to skate by like she did, frankly, sucks.
Wanna say the writers fumbled somewhere? Cop out. It's waaaay easier to strip away the "good qualities" she has because she makes it too damn easy to rip her, just as I said before.
Gonna take a short break from this particular discussion (if it even is indeed still going). Fics have updated, and time to get my read on.
ReplyDeleteCatch yall later.
@shadowfalcon76
ReplyDeletehappy reading
@shadowfalcon76
ReplyDeleteActually, truth be told, it's fics AND metal slime hunting in DQ9.
Yea I think I'm gonna call it day trying to defend Rarity, I like her, I know others like her, and I need to be happy with that.
ReplyDeleteThis was still a great episode BTW and the next couple all sound like their gonna be great too.
Hey ease up on the sarcasm a little. It just seemed to me that there was context of severity and almost wickedness painted across Rarity that I don't feel is even there in any degree, especially when the real antagonist of the episode is Iron Will, and even then he wasn't a proper villain.
ReplyDelete@pmcollectorboy
ReplyDeleteOne last post before I really do go (I can already hear those metal slimes scampering off as I type).
I don't even believe Iron Will could be classified as the antagonist this time. I feel Fluttershy (of all characters) filled that role in this episode. IW just seemed like a guy trying to do his job. He's at least a lot more sympathetic as a character than Trixie or The Flim Flam Brothers.
"She was the quickest one to get Discord-ized w/o direct touch from the baddie himself, wasn't she?"
ReplyDeleteActually, no. Rarity was actually seen putting up some kind of resistance. It could be said that only Rainbow Dash had the harder test and only succumbed through the understandably sheer amount of terror that was asked of her. Fluttershy only had a built in fail safe device.
Damn metal slimes. Obnoxious level grinding was half the reason I gave up on Dragon Quest 9.
ReplyDeleteI've got most the fanfics I want to read at this moment on my Aldiko. Right now I'm working through Past Sins, and "grinding" is a rather apt way to describe my feelings on it.
What about the part where Angel bitch slapped fluttershy?
ReplyDelete@pmcollectorboy
ReplyDeleteNot convinced by that resistance argument.
Maybe not the quickest corruption, but definitely the easiest. Discord didn't have to put forth that much effort compared to the AJ, PP, RD, and FS corruptions. Got anything else?
I've also got to defend Rarity's actions during Sweet and Elite. She clearly realized she had gotten into a hypercritical circle and had difficulty figuring out how to play both cirles at the same time. I saw it not as lying to her friends to get her way with the upper class but as trying to protect her friends from the upper class. Now on the deception against the side of her friends, I think it was just immaturity on her part and her not figuring out how to crawl her way out of being in over her head. It all started with her weighing her viable need to join the social elite party to further her business against the equal weight of attending Twilight's party and deciding on how to react. I think the resolution says more about her friends' kindness and understanding than it does about Rarity's supposed lack of character behind her deception. Ultimately she did choose to stick by her friends when the two circles eventually crashed.
ReplyDelete@mobtuseI gave my evidence. Rarity was visibly seen struggling to pull away from the corrupting influence of the gem. Where's your evidence that more effort was put into the others? Applejack and Pinkie Pie crumbled with the same effort that seemed to be the norm for Discord. Discord only had to physically cheat for Fluttershy but I see it as Fluttershy having a fail safe device built into her. Rainbow Dash had the most difficult task asked of her so it could be said that only she had more corrupting force exerted on her. Twilight didn't need to have a direct corruption. She was the top of the pyramid and so had to go because the lower levels were already gone.
ReplyDeleteI really liked this episode, but there was one scene for me that really stuck out, and that was when Fluttershy broke Pinkie Pie and Rarity. For the sake of time, let's just say that hurt me because of how cold that was delivered. It's one thing to strike at the superficial, but to go where it's deep and personal, that is abhorrent. However, this is one of the reasons I love this show. They show such scenes with no sugar-coating to it; it's not G3-esque garbage.
ReplyDeleteReading these comments, am I the only one who actually like Rarity charming the other pony for the asparagus? I know it's been seen before not only by her but in other forms of media as well, and most of the time when I see it, I can't help but smile a little bit. I think it's because I like to see characters succeed. I give credit where credit is due, Rarity, herself, gave him back the money for the asparagus (how many times have you seen that before? Hmmmm. . .?). Not to mention, what helps Rarity's case is we are given the impression the asparagus was to be Fluttershy's but she alone wouldn't have the gall to ask for it. On top of that, Rarity was trying to prove a point about assertiveness. Sure it was more charm then assertiveness, but let's be honest folks, would asking him point-blank have worked. . . I thought so. Rarity is still high on my list of favorites amongst the Mane 6 (#2 right behind Pinkie Pie), and the soul fact that she was only there to help Fluttershy only made me love her even more, and made her crying all the more tragic.
Overall, I like this episode. I don't know where to put it in my "favorites" list, I will sit on it for a while, but it will probably be somewhere in the top 10 of season 2.
@pmcollectorboy
ReplyDelete(In reply to your Sweet & Elite post)
*Sigh* Okay then. Good enough of a point, I guess.
But still, skating by relatively unscathed like that? Kind of a bit unrealistic (no matter how much her friends love her) in my opinion.
As for the corruption, I'm basing my opinion off of how many lines of dialogue had to be used just to push them off the metaphorical edge. Sure, Rarity initially pulled away, but still, it looks more like Discord only nudged her, whereas the previous two jobs had a lot more smoke & mirrors involved. Rarity's easily exposed flaw did the rest for Discord when it was her turn. All he had to do was get the ball rolling.
If that last chunk of opinion (about corruption) wasn't formed in a good enough way, I'll reexamine that, then.
This episode started off really well but I think they overdid flutterbitch in unnecessary places and it's just oo much negative emotions at once.
ReplyDeleteIn terms of Rarty, I don't hate her but I'm against her actions this episode completely. Sweet and Elite didn't bother me that much actually, people get carried away when chasing a dream, but in this one she took advantage of another's emotions and vulnerability. Saying he fell for it is a bad excuse. That's like blaming a con artist's victims for falling for it. (Madoff's victims would have been at fault for falling for it.) And ego boost is never an excuse, he didn't ask to "pay" for an ego boost, it was forced on him, he just couldn't resist the charm cuz people tend to do that, doesn't make it right. Compensation isn't a good excuse either because there's clearly value in getting the asparagus when there's a shortage of supply.
Anyways, Rarity was definitely wrong in my opinion, it might be her personality and it might not have done so much damage, but it was definitely wrong and it's the wrong way of going about it. Why can't you just ask him nicely and explain the situation?
Rarity is an interesting character because I used to hate characters like her, when she was first shown I was ready to hate her guts. But when she gave her tail to the... sea serpent thing I was blown away and smacked myself for being so judgmental, and when art of the dress came that fortified my respect for rarity and changed my opinion of fashion and made me see beyond the shallowness of it. I had such high respect for her that even though what she did to the 2 colts in best night ever bothered me, I let it slide, pretending I didn't see it or something. And I understood sweet and elite as mentioned above. But this is a bit too obvious... and criticism need to be given where it's deserved. Rarity was taking full advantage of her beauty to SEDUCE another pony with obvious low self confidence in terms of girls specifically (and she knows it) for her benefit. No way around it. By no means do I hate her, each have their own flaws, but I do feel like raging about her.
I find it very strange that many people are defending her.
@flamelta
ReplyDeleteSo you feel the writers fumbled the execution of that particular event then, correct? That's the vibe I'm getting from your post.
Although Rarity is my favourite pony I wasn't really happy with the way she acquired the asparagus. It wasn't just that it was a slightly bitchy thing to do but also that it used an ability she had that very few ponies would be able to copy; it would work for Rarity, but as a general demonstration of standing up for yourself it wasn't terribly useful.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, how else could Rarity have obtained the asparagus? Looking at it from the writers' point of view they had a few seconds in which Rarity had to gain ownership of something belonging to another pony. There aren't many options open to them.
@Madcat
(About Bon Bon's buckle) "I dunno. That looks kinda like a regular buckle to me."
That's what I thought at first, but all saddlebag buckles appear to have some sort of meaning. I think that apart from the muffin one all of them are cutie marks.
@mobtuse
ReplyDeleteYeah that's pretty much it. I don't like how they handled Rarity in terms of seduction. Because I thought Rarity was meant to show that you can be obsessed about looks/ popularity/ class but not be stereotypically shallow or any of the negative traits that comes with people that are normally associated with that kind of character.
As a whole she's still great, I doubt even with this character flaw she'll let it REALLY hurt anyone (she's still rarity). I'm also ok with character flaws, but I just don't like this particular flaw being attached to her (seriously if RD or AJ did it I probably would've been more ok with it, though that'll never happen ^^;), it destroys a good part of what I loved her for.
I guess I came off as pretty negative so far. It's just that Rarity is one of the key characters I refer to when telling people how amazing MLP characters are, and this makes me sad. =(
Ooo the geek pony's cutie mark is a robot!
ReplyDeleteI'd say those two mare were a reference to the main characters of Romy and Michelle's High School Reunion.
ReplyDeleteI loved this episode. 'New Fluttershy' was equal parts evil and adorable. the ending may have been rushed but it didn't really take away from the episode. I wasn't really surprised that Equestrian businessponies are cutthroat, it just means the world isn't just a happy-go-lucky paradise like the older generations were.
ReplyDeleteThe plot of the episode didn't do much for me. Mainly because the topic being to complex and thus felt simplified (of course that might just be my nerdy side speaking as I'm in progress of writing a paper on methods and ethics of solving conflicts).
ReplyDeleteThat being said I loved the episode anyway :) I think it has become impossible for me to dislike anything related to ponies :)
You know, "Unmarked" by Croswynd was using minotaurs not long before this episode came out. And his minotaur spoke in the third person just like Iron Will.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was a weird enough coincidence to deserve a mention. It's always a good thing when fanfiction lines up perfectly with future canon.
@Wisdom Thumbs
ReplyDeleteWell, there is a saying about a million monkeys with typewriters eventually churning out Hamlet...
LOL nah, it's bound to happen eventually that someone in the fandom will produce something that's eerily similar to what the producers are cooking. It's happened a few times, as astronomical a chance as it is.
sooo... does anybody know who voiced the Minotaur? he sounded a lot like hercule from dbz if u ask me.
ReplyDeleteAlthough it does sound a lot like Chris Rager's Hercule Satan voice, some places are saying it was R. Lee Ermey who did the voice. Nothing substantiated, mind you (i.e. it lists Iron Will on his wiki page, but not his IMDB page, so take this info with a large grain of salt until confirmed).
ReplyDelete@FreezingShock
ReplyDeleteI'm more than good with Fluttershy making them crap themselves as a tradeoff for not having an episode for a full year. You know, a main character episode? Those things Pinkie and Rarity had three of each since Fluttershy's last one? I'm just glad the writers didn't phase her out of the show entierly. That's what it was shaping up to be from how things were going.
@the-matthew
ReplyDeleteFew ponies might be able to copy Rarity's technique, however, we know from Green isn't Your Color that Fluttershy is indeed quite attractive. So as a general lesson it might fail, but as a specific lesson to her personal friend who is just to shy/insecure to flaunt her own looks it's a bit more viable. Still a might shallow, but well that's Rarity. She is like that sometimes, but it's still largely a superficial character trait.
Which I think is the real problem at hand. Too many folks are judging her on her actions alone and ignoring her intentions. Her heart is after all usually in the right place as she didn't get the Element of Generosity for nothing.
@Ironclad
ReplyDeleteGo to a Vet's office and call them a useless, jobless hippie. Tell us how that pans out.
@crazyredemu
ReplyDeleteReframe:
"If a woman is stupid enough to have sex with a guy because he complements her, she deserves to be left raising the kid she has as a result as a single parent."
@mobtuseyou know, you'd make a terrible friend to anyone if that is how you would see Rarity as.
ReplyDeleteTwilight at least understood her and was happy that Rarity made such good business connections. She knows Rarity's dreams and passion for wanting her fashion known throughout Equestria.
Are you going to break a friendship just because your friend got a rare opportunity to get their foot in the door that could open up a road to achieving their life's dream?
Sure I'd a been upset she didn't think me as a good enough friend to be open about wanting to miss out on my birthday to go to some new shindig high class party, but, I'd be a good friend back and let them know how happy I was for them, and hopefully we'll be able to celebrate later.
What is a friend? certainly not one who thinks so one sided. I can accept that Rarity is a bit greedy and likes to flaunt her stuff a bit if it gets her what she wants, but she is a great and generous gal who stood by her friends who for all she knew pretty much threw her dreams out the window.
Not sure or much care for what your arguement was about that sprung those words but that sir is not a way to view a friend in any stretch of the imagination. You have to give as much as you take or you'll end up surrounded by yes men and people that only stand by you for as long as your useful to them.
oh... well, yeah try not to be so one sided it's ignorant.
@mobtuse knows as much as Rarity about fashion? so wearing a live bird's nest on your head is fashionable? sorry I'll stick to more less wild look and go with what Rarity designed for her first.
ReplyDeleteFluttershy just has a good sense of sowing skills not so much fashion as you can see by what she ended up making Rarity design for her :P
oh well birds of a feather and all that, enjoy :P
And really where does Fluttershy get off calling Rarity and Pinkie Pie the two most FRIVOLOUS?
FLUTTERBITCH PLEASE Is not catering to the whims of animals that eat, poop, and sleep all day while making messes and trampling over ponies, well as not being able to cross a street without her guidance a bit of a waste of what she could be doing in life?
I mean if you want useless she pretty much TEACHES SQUIRRELS dancing and birds to sing?
Definitely a solid episode I'd re-watch. Iron Will is one of those characters I would not mind making another appearance, even if just a cameo (also, why is he labeled as a villain?)
ReplyDeleteCan't forget the great instantly recognizable references either they capitalized on, not to mention the background character interaction... which I really gotta start paying more attention to since I missed these as well.
Pinkie/Rarity's interactions were something I pointed out in the discussion too, they seem to be very tolerant of each other and appear to have a much stronger bond than many of us probably speculated. It's really helping paint a good picture of the more specific interpersonal bits with the Mane 6, as well as being very enjoyable to boot.
Bon Bon's belt buckle is unmistakably a lyre, not a generic buckle. Here's a closer picture: http://i39.tinypic.com/hra1c8.jpg
ReplyDelete@Cátsy
ReplyDelete>I mean if you want useless she pretty much TEACHES SQUIRRELS dancing and birds to sing?
Well, when FS dissed Rarity and Pinkie on being frivolous I think she was referring to their obsession with material and passing things like dresses and cakes. For all we know, maybe FS has interest in philosophy. Remember, she's extreme introvert, people like that tend to view mundane things as petty. And she was really on edge back then.
But I agree with second part. While other 5 ponies have clear occupation and understandable source of income, FS just lives reclusive life in her cottage doing nothing in particular. Maybe she's exploiting unemployment compensation?
@IkkouSoryu
ReplyDeleteIn the very first episode, she was providing the music for a very prestigious celebration. Also, if one recalls Applebuck Season, Fluttershy was in charge of the annual bunny census. She clearly has a real job. It's just labeling that job is a bit difficult.
Personally I might try to equate her with some kind of game warden or park ranger. It's her job to manage and maintain the local wild life. That's a real enough job in our own world, in one like Equestria where ponies control the weather and seasonal cycles while regarding places like everfree as 'unnatural', it becomes all the more important.
...Teaching birds to sing and squirrels to dance might seem a frivolous to us, but in Equestria it's valuable community service.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if this has been already posted, but a layout animator has said they intentionally inserted in Lyra, Bonbon and Pipsqueak.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?s=e6d5ae6ff9db533ee1a0c9a737d8da34&showtopic=85497&st=0&p=2022672&#entry2022672
Not the best episode.
ReplyDeleteBut high on emotion like The Last Roundup and the second Discord episode.
@62835fdc-3fb1-11e1-9fc6-000bcdcb2996
ReplyDeleteWell put! There seems to be an awful lot of negative projection regarding Rarity's actions and her intentions going on here. In this episode, her dear friend Fluttershy had just missed the chance to purchase the asparagus she so desperately needed (for whatever misguided reason). Given Rarity’s generous nature, she is obviously eager to help her friend, and she springs into action, pursuing the only asparagus in sight, viz. Nerdy Pony. Time is of the essence - there is no other asparagus stall in sight and the show is only 22:04 long.
She then proceeds to persuade said pony to part with his purchase, leaving him in the end no poorer than before. In this brief exchange, she also demonstrates to Fluttershy, that yes, charm and beauty can be used to your advantage. Could she have shown this in another way? Presumably. Was there enough time for that? No.
Had this vegetable indeed been a cure for cancer or some other life threatening illness (I know, a preposterous suggestion, but I did not come up with it, look upthread for that nugget), mr. Nerdy Pony would presumably have been more loath to part with it than he was.
Later, Rarity takes issue with Fluttershy’s misguided attempt to use her charm technique, rightly pointing out that it would have been better to threaten to take her business elsewhere. The right tool for the right situation. Not swaying your hips to get anything you want, but demonstrating that asserting yourself can have many forms.
I find it telling that Pinkie Pie apparently gets a free pass for her actions. What she did at the tomato stall was not haggling (that would require a negotiation over price, negative appraisal of merchandize, threats to take business elsewhere, references to earlier trades, etc, etc) but beautifully crafted confusion. It was a grand Bugs Bunny/Daffy Duck (my favourite cartoon characters until the ponies) reference, but in the end, Pinkie Pie tricked the stall keeper to sell under the current, clearly advertised market price. Should we blame her because she is using her superior intellect (not to mention motor mouth) to get what she wants? You could, but that would be tiresome. Almost as tiresome as blaming Rarity for using her charms on occasion to help her friends.
If you somehow begrudge that the beautiful and charming can more easily get, what the rest of us cannot, then I am sorry for you. You will have a hard time in this world, because that is the nature of the beast. We, as the ponies, can have many different positive qualities and abilities, and I find holding some of these in contempt oddly repugnant, like blaming the strong for lifting more than the weak, or the fast for outrunning the slow. Charm, beauty, and personal skills are strengths and should be celebrated as such. The important part is the purpose to which you apply your strength, not the quality of the strength itself. Why does Rarity use her charm? To help a friend in need. Terrible, I know.
As is probably painfully clear, I am fond of Rarity, and that she is willing to use the arsenal at her disposal for the sake of her friends just makes her more endearing. In her hooves, charm is a tool, and she can wield it to great effect. If someone could point to a case, where she used her gifts to hurt somepony, then I’m all ears. (Well, except Blueblood, he deserved it, and besides, weaponized cake is more PP’s domain).
I have, from time to time, been queasy about some of Rarity's choices (Sweet and Elite springs to mind), but even there, she was mainly trying to offend neither those whose favour she curried nor her friends. She did that through a series of white lies (an innocuous activity that makes social interaction possible) that sadly for her escalated beyond what she could have predicted. Had Twilight Sparkle and friends stayed in Ponyville, none would have been the wiser, and TS would, eventually, have gotten an overelaborate dress (rate Rarity as best pony as I might, I do not share her taste in the fashionable). But, in the end, she did declare for her friends. She had not disowned them at any point (so clearly, she is a better pony that e.g. Saint Peter would be), she had just tried to avoid the subject altogether. Upper Crust and Jet Set knew from their earlier exchange that she was from Ponyville, but that did not stop them from inviting her to the garden party, once that she had amply demonstrated that her sophistication and general high culture acumen was genuine (shown ever so clearly throughout Becoming Popular). This is a shallow pony? I think not...
ReplyDeleteRarity is put in more interesting and difficult situations than the rest, because she is the more mature of the Mane 6. She is often the first to spot a problem, and in contrast to the others, can usually handle her problems on her own. I’ll grant you all that she can be fussy, and probably went a tiny bit overboard in Sonic Rainboom (a fact, she herself fully acknowledged and apologised for. Compare that with Rainbow Dash’s lame excuse in Mare Do Well).
Is she perfect? Of course not. She wouldn't be nearly as amusing to behold if she was.
@Niels Olof
ReplyDeleteI don't agree with your reading of the reason why Upper Crust and Jet Set invited Rarity to their party. The way I saw it was that they wanted nothing to do with her when they thought she was of no use to them, but as soon as they saw her with Fancy Pants she became a link they could exploit to get further up the social scale. They were false to the core. Rarity, on the other hand, was fundamentally genuine to others throughout. She pretended to be more acquainted with Canterlot society than she was, but she never lied to other ponies about how she regarded them.
That's why this latest episode felt slightly off to me. On this occasion she was lying to him about him, not about herself. ("Lying" is perhaps too strong a word here.) I grant you that he must have had the IQ of a sock to be taken in by it, but it still doesn't sit well with me that a pony usually brimming over with integrity should fall into a slightly exploitative strategy. I'd have been happier had she not laid the false flattery on quite so thick.
But, given the time constraints, I think I'll allow this one. It's not that big a deal in what was a great episode.
I dont care what anypony says, Fluttershy can do anything and still be cute. I love Aggressiveshy but I think I fell in love with Flutterbitch. I mean shes too cute to hate
ReplyDelete@the-matthew
ReplyDeleteYou are, on reflection, quite correct about Sweet and Elite vis-Ã -vis Upper Crust and Jet Set. It was towards all the other ponies that Rarity's true qualities came through. One wonders, if UP and JS would not have tried to shoot her down, had she not been able to make it to the level of Fancy Pants so quickly.
As for the treatment of mr. Nerdy Pony, we should also not forget that the befuddlement of the hapless male by the wily female is an old chestnut, that can still occasionally amuse. I know I smiled ;)
Some people have gone full-on crazy over the Rarity bit in this episode. "Maybe the nerd needed the asparagus for a miraculous cure for dying relatives"..? Really?
ReplyDeleteLook, if someone uses their strength to take advantage of others for their own personal gain, they're a bully/villain. If someone uses their strength to right an injustice then they're regarded as a hero.
Rarity used her strength (her charm) to convince the guy who cut in front of Fluttershy to do the right thing and let her have the last asparagus. There was no conflict and no hurt feelings. In return the guy was on cloud 9 from Rarity's attentions (so they obviously have some value to him), she paid him back, and he was marginally in the wrong to begin with. So she's clearly not a villain and the people who despise her actions here perhaps have some issues of their own that they're projecting into the whole deal.
So is she a hero then?
No... because we're talking about asparagus. Cripes.
I honestly cannot believe you forgot to mention Pip Squeak. That was the main focus of that picture for me before reading the paragraph. D:
ReplyDelete@Harwick
ReplyDelete>No... because we're talking about asparagus. Cripes.
One shudders to think of the abuse hurled at Rarity, had the item at hoof been a head of cabbage, or a rope of onions...
So there are hydras, cockatraces, manticores, and minotaurs but no Human Roman Impire? Seems legit.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand why there's such an issue with Rarity's actions in this episode. She has -always- been willing to use manipulation for a good cause, and she hasn't been terribly scrupulous about what cause is good. Remember "Dragonshy"? Wasn't her attempt to charm the dragon out of his gold funny, rather than repulsive? Perfect characters wouldn't reflect humanity well enough to be funny or meaningful.
ReplyDeleteI'm more appalled by the male pony not realizing he was being flattered. We already have plenty of cartoons where the "comedy" comes from the characters being grossly moronic or crude. This episode went way too far in that direction for me to be happy with it.
Every time I watch this episode, and see Angel Bunny acting so mean towards Fluttershy, I think, "Go ahead and keep acting like that. But don't be surprised when you find yourself in the BUNNY FIRE!"
ReplyDelete@Niels Olof
ReplyDelete>One shudders to think of the abuse hurled at Rarity, had the item at hoof been a head of cabbage, or a rope of onions...
The horror, the HORROR!
//faints//
You know, when I first watched this, I was furious at the cherry vendor, but when I stopped to think about it, I don't think he was actually trying to cheat Fluttershy. I think he heard them talking (they were like 15 feet away from him) and was trying to get her to stand up for herself. I mean, he was perfectly happy to sell the cherry for 2 bits to another customer. If he was really just being greedy, he could have just waited and taken all of Fluttershy's money.
ReplyDeleteBut that's just my thoughts.
No matter how funny the gags were, how funny a character Iron Will was, this episode really had a dingy view of Equestria and the main characters.
ReplyDeleteEvery merchant(And even a few of the town ponies) is a horrible jerk, Rarity's despicably manipulative, Pinkie rips off a vendor, and Fluttershy... well, that "bullying scene" seems to hint at some buried hatred for her friends.
I'm sorry, but this whole thing left me feeling rather sick.
haha half of this stuff I wouldn't notice if I didn't read these discussions. I totally missed pipsqueak, but Im glad to see him back. Kinda disappointed he's wondering around unattended o.o...
ReplyDelete@Mo-Go I have to agree with you a bit. Although I do realize they were trying to make a point, majority of the time fluttershy wouldn't have had to be a jerk if the townsponies weren't behaving a bit jerkishly themselves o.o
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ReplyDelete@shadowfalcon76
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry but I don't see how the genders involved would make any difference, all she did was flatter him a bit. People of both genders use flattery and charm in their dealings with others all the time, and in Rarity's line of work it's pretty much essential.
@HMorris73
ReplyDeleteGood point. Was Rarity's action any different from saying to a customer "Madame looks lovely" when madame looks like a crap in a dress? On reflection, I'm not sure it was. Damn this vacillation of mine.
Also, I'm sorry, Fluttershy. The first episode this season that centres on you, and your first significant appearance for three months, and half the discussion is about Rarity. Poor, poor Fluttershy.
@the-matthew
ReplyDelete> Also, I'm sorry, Fluttershy. The first episode this season that centres on you, and your first significant appearance for three months, and half the discussion is about Rarity. Poor, poor Fluttershy.
Well, this would not have happened, if some people had not seen fit to impugn a lady's honour. At least Fluttershy got to dominate (in fact rather more than she intended) her own episode, even with both Pinkie Pie and Rarity as her co-cast. Compare that with Applejack ;) Still, looking forward to another Fluttershy episode, the favourite pegasus needs more development.
@Unknown
ReplyDeleteThis Fact fits my headcanon perfectly. Pegasi have an exstreme finesse in use of thir wings, in extention the feathers. Feathers are elastic as seen in "May the Best Pet Win".
This gives the wings multiple usages, just like the horn of a unicorn (it has muliple usages).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_3F596UrxU
ReplyDeletebut but but.... Seth you left out the Gone with the Wind reference...
Being one who works with troubled kids, they didn't do a good job of differentiating being assertive and aggressive. Fluttershy's behaviour towards Iron Will at the very end was assertive. Everything prior was aggressive, and pointedly so.
ReplyDeleteNot that I'm complaining about the Twilight pic, but socks have been canon since 'Party of One' where we see one in Rarity's trash that Spike was taking out.
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