• Hearth Warming Eve: Discussion

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    Top notch voice acting: the episode!

    Saturday, December 17, 2011 op
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    749 comments:

    1. Nova25December 17, 2011 at 12:31 PM

      @Jimperator
      There's ''speculation and conjecture'', and there are 'reasonable speculations and conjectures'.

      If you need the extreme magical 'potential' of an Alicorn to move the Sun and/or Moon... the likelihood of needing a very LARGE number of much weaker/inexperienced magic users (especially in those ancient time... we can reasonably theorize that if magic was more raw/direct in those times, unicorns had much less control and knowledge of it) is that much higher.

      Not the *absolute* theory, of course, but surely not the last one at the bottom.

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    2. KaijyuuDecember 17, 2011 at 12:32 PM

      It was.... informative?


      It had some funny parts and we got some history, but I don't have much to say about it other than that.

      My gut feeling is calling this episode filler. Which is odd because this would be huge in a normal show, and our "normal" episodes would be filler!

      Technically everything was awesome, as usual (animation, voice acting, etc). Writing was clever. I'm hoping that was foreshadowing for later villains.

      It's just... no character development in a character driven show = not going anywhere. I guess that's why I'd call it filler.

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    3. AnonymousDecember 17, 2011 at 12:32 PM

      @richfiles

      That's a quote from the movie "Singin' In the Rain" (one of my favorites!).

      ReplyDelete
    4. CharginChuckDecember 17, 2011 at 12:35 PM

      @monocrowm
      You do realize that they were portraying other characters in this episode, right?

      ReplyDelete
    5. AJDecember 17, 2011 at 12:37 PM

      I loved that episode. So much. I haven't laughed that much since Lesson Zero, and this story had so much meat to it! It was everything that I could have hoped for as an expansion of the blizzard story that was already known. Loved the various historical characters, loved the breakdown of the roles each pony played (Twilight, Applejack and Fluttershy being the reasonable ones, the other three being insufferable but hilarious.) Loved the Windigos. Pinkie yanking on Twilight's head to 'help'. Chancellor Puddinhead (with hat!). Rarity mounting Twilight (not in the saucy way). Fluttershy's "I don't hate you nearly as much as Commander Hurricane". Naming the new land "Earth". Rarity fighting over a rock... There were so many great lines and moment in this episode.

      I don't know... apparently some people were disappointed because no Discord or Princesses, but I had seen the storybook App so I knew they weren't likely to factor into things. I got way more entertainment than I expected from the episode, so I was thrilled. Big thumbs up from me.

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    6. AltherixDecember 17, 2011 at 12:37 PM

      Most do realize the reason they gave Unicorns the power to bring night/day is so they wouldn't seem as tyrants in the story?

      Think about it, Pegasus manage the weather in exchange for food with the Earth ponies. Remove the Night/Day thing and you got, Unicorns want food in exchange for...not using their magic on the Earth ponies to get food by force.

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    7. AnonymousDecember 17, 2011 at 12:40 PM

      Awesome episode, with what appears to be a hymn of Equestria :O
      My only grievance is that I think Fluttershy's character has become a bit one dimensional lately...

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    8. John PerryDecember 17, 2011 at 12:42 PM

      @RiskyOoh, excellent point...

      On a side note, I'm not sure I like this idea of the Windigoes being tied to Discord...Discord causes chaos, but the Windigoes seem to be merely drawn to it. Plus, Discord was just so flamboyant and over-the-top, it just doesn't seem like him to be so subtle here.

      I dunno, I really prefer the Windigoes being their own threat. Just my opinion, but there you go.

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    9. Nickel GunnerDecember 17, 2011 at 12:46 PM

      @Nova25Well, if you think about it that way, that only means it would be MORE possible for unicorns to do this now than in ancient times.

      1) There are probably more unicorns around now than there were then and
      2) As you said, magic is being more and more studied and refined.

      ReplyDelete
    10. OryutzenDecember 17, 2011 at 12:49 PM

      @Kaijyuu I say they still went somewhere with this.
      After all, we got a whole lot of backstory to Equestria as a whole.

      ReplyDelete
    11. Nova25December 17, 2011 at 12:57 PM

      @Nickel Gunner
      After several millennia, of having Almight Alicorns do (what was probably something very complex, and big in that time, like Old Computer VS New Computer, you know ?) for them, well...

      ...something rather common with ancient-stuff most probably occurred :

      They forgot over time the 'ancient ritual' needed, now probably forgotten and hidden in a single dusty tome, deep in the Castle's Archives.

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    12. JimperatorDecember 17, 2011 at 1:06 PM

      @Nova25

      Magic isn't explained very well in this world. In fact Discord made the mysterious quality of magic canon by calling it the most mysterious of the elements.

      I get the point you're trying to make though, and I'm not saying it doesn't make sense. But the fact remains that details are scant. I could easily argue in a fanon vs fanon manner that in the play it merely depicted 3 or so unicorns moving the day and night cycles, and you'd have a hard time countering with better reasoning for a more absolute number.

      I could argue that, but I'm not going to. Because I've made my own point clear. The best we can determine from canon is that the descending order of power goes like this:

      Elements of Harmony
      Discord
      Royal Princesses
      Ponykind

      Anything else; trying to quantify by how much one is more powerful then the other is just nit picking.

      ReplyDelete
    13. JamDecember 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM

      So unicorns can control the sun and the moon... Now I want an episode where Princess Celestia (and maybe Luna too) is for some reason unable to fulfill her duties and Twilight has to take over!

      ReplyDelete
    14. JohnDecember 17, 2011 at 1:09 PM

      I can honestly say that that was my favourite episode of S2! I really liked the story.

      ReplyDelete
    15. FoxdeimosDecember 17, 2011 at 1:10 PM

      I don't usually post on episode threads, but I feel the need to make an intervention here because I'm having the hardest of times understanding how people are having so much trouble appreciating the episode for the beauty it is. This was, in my humblest of opinions, the best episode in the season thus far, and more than redeemed my opinion on Merriwether Williams.

      Being this episode about the founding of Equestria, it really wasn't too much of a stretch to imagine that they wouldn't really have time to touch upon the Princesses. To do so, they'd have to go through Discord's era as well, which was CLEARLY stated to have come AFTER Equestria was founded, in a time where all kinds of ponies lived together under the rule of a single being. Any and all individuals disappointed in their absence have only themselves to blame for excessive hype.

      And for all we know, the story presented here is a incredibly fertile ground for new ideas to be worked on by the fanon, for those who wish to venture in such waters. One could very well see a possible story for the origin of the Elements of Harmony in this one, after the tribes came together and realized the true power that friendship between ponies hold. The way every single character was portrayed in the play was beyond astounding and highly entertaining, and the message behind the episode was a powerful one indeed, even if we all already know it by heart (though quite a few of us don't put those valuable teachings into practice, as you can see clearly if you just skim through the comments in this very section), crowned by a swell and powerful anthem to seal the episode with a golden key.

      Again, some people are letting their personal expectations get in the way of their appreciation of the show. People are seemingly keen into overanalyzing, but most are failing to actually do it by getting enraged when a single little detail betrays their mind canon instead of stopping, taking their time and thinking things more throughly. I'd just like to reinforce the plead made a few weeks ago for people to STOP and give it a little more thought before lashing out their frustrations on the writer and the team.

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    16. Fantastic Mr. GreedDecember 17, 2011 at 1:13 PM

      I LOVED this episode.

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    17. JimperatorDecember 17, 2011 at 1:22 PM

      @Foxdeimos

      While I am most certainly guilty of over-analyzing, I must whole-heartedly agree with you. I analyze for the fun of it, the mental challenge of arranging details and chewing over food for thought with fellow fans. But seeing some people react the way some have is disconcerting. I loved the episode and love this show for what it is. That's all any of us should be doing.

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    18. WolfmaneDecember 17, 2011 at 1:23 PM

      Loved it!

      ReplyDelete
    19. YappyDecember 17, 2011 at 1:27 PM

      This comment has been removed by the author.

      ReplyDelete
    20. ihatemyselfandwishtodieDecember 17, 2011 at 1:28 PM

      We are gathered here today in remembrance of the wondrous and fulfilling fanon...

      ReplyDelete
    21. AnonymousDecember 17, 2011 at 1:30 PM

      I notice that there are no letters to Princess Celestia in either this episode or Mare Do Well. Both were written by Merriweather Williams. Both had morality lessons. In Mare, Rainbow learns humilty the hard way. In this ep, the lesson is don't bicker. Merriweather's approach seems to be to teach by example and to use the mane cast as examples of what not to do. The cast are horrible to RD in Mare. The cast bicker after performing the lead roles in a morality play on bickering. What would the letters be?

      Dear Princess Celestia, today I learned that my friends humilated me to teach me a lesson about my ego.

      Dear Princess Celestia, today we taught other ponies about bickering only to bicker among ourselves immediately afterward.

      So, in this approach, ponies are used as examples of what not to do, rather than characters with flaws learning to recognize their flaws and overcome them. In Mare and Hearth Warming, we learn the lesson, the ponies are only there to illustrate the lesson, and there is no letter.

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    22. JimperatorDecember 17, 2011 at 1:37 PM

      @frith

      There was a letter in Mare Do Well. Remember Spike had it all penned out and Rainbow Dash insisted she write it herself?

      ReplyDelete
    23. AJDecember 17, 2011 at 1:39 PM

      As for Celestia and Luna, my completely made-up-on-the-spot theory is that they always existed as the spirits (gods) of the sun and moon, respectively... hence they were technically around to be on the Equestrian Flag. The unicorns used their powers to call out to them to move the sun and moon. However, the sisters did not live on the earth and stayed in the sky with their respective heavenly bodies.

      They probably weren't too interested in spending time with the ponies before that first instance where the magic of friendship thawed the blizzard. Then, they were happy to watch as the ponies were learning to better themselves on their own, and making a good deal of progress, until Discord came. It wasn't until Celestia and Luna were forced to look down upon the suffering that Discord caused and the ponies helplessness against it that they took pity on them and decided they had to directly intervene. They banished Discord and stayed to live among the ponies as protectors and rulers, though Celestia obviously keeps a light touch and lets the ponies work out their problems themselves.

      Which brings us to today, where Celestia tries to stay out of things as much as possible and guide the ponies to solving their own problems, while keeping the really big bads away as much as possible.

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    24. NakanjaDecember 17, 2011 at 1:40 PM

      One of my favorite episodes for sure!

      I liked the styles of the three tribes and the antics of the pony leaders, Chancellor Puddinghead especially but every pony was great in this episode.

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    25. AnonymousDecember 17, 2011 at 1:43 PM

      @Jimperator I'd love to read or hear what was in that letter, but the content was npot included in the episode. No content, that's why I say there was no letter.

      ReplyDelete
    26. MikeDecember 17, 2011 at 1:47 PM

      did anyone notice at 20:20 there were 3 carrot tops 3 colgates, 2 lyras and 2 bonbons?
      9_6

      ReplyDelete
    27. AJDecember 17, 2011 at 1:53 PM

      On a side note, I'm thinking that there must be a banner ad or something that really disagrees with my browser, because it keeps locking up on me when I load or reload a page, but only randomly.

      ReplyDelete
    28. DutchBDecember 17, 2011 at 1:55 PM

      Wait is pony countdown correct and do we have to wait 20DAYS! for a new episode!!!!
      OF ALL THE WORST THINGS THAT COULD HAPPEN THIS IS THE WORST POSSIBLE THING

      or did Ditzy set the timer of pony countdown?

      ReplyDelete
    29. AnonymousDecember 17, 2011 at 1:58 PM

      @Harwick As the adverts are chosen by Google based on your apparent global location, chances are good that it's a local commerce in your area that is displaying something that is incompatible with your browser.

      ReplyDelete
    30. AnonymousDecember 17, 2011 at 2:00 PM

      @DutchB Luna's holiday takes a lot out of ponies, they need their rest.

      ReplyDelete
    31. yettiDecember 17, 2011 at 2:05 PM

      Definitely the best S2 episode . The story is simply amazing. And,if anyone want to complain that it is not fanon compatible - read Story: It's a Dangerous Business, Going Out Your Door.

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    32. SilicasDecember 17, 2011 at 2:10 PM

      First off: This episode was amazing.

      I don’t know if it’s just me, but it seems that Meriwether Williams tries to cater to bronies more than the other writers. I’m definitely interested in seeing what she’ll produce in the future. (More backstory please!)

      And on to speculation!

      First, a few things to note:

      Clover/Twilight mentions that Starswirl was her mentor. She never said he had died, so he could still be alive at the time of the founding. And hence possibly alive to be recognizable by Luna if she came to existence after the founding.

      I think the theory that the common flag shown at the end is a product of this story being a play than evidence of the existence of alicorns is best explanation.

      So, with that, and some input from other posts and friends and such, here is my rough head canon in light of this episode:

      This episode occurred first, before Celestia and Luna came into existence. The events portrayed in the public pageant are clearly oversimplified. The elements of harmony came about directly from this unification event. (I like the idea that they are the manifest spirits of those six founders. I like that idea a lot.)

      After some time, something really bad threatens Equestria. It could be a wendigo villain, something else, or Discord.

      The ponies of all races then get together and somehow create the race of alicorns, imbuing them with their natural earth/pegasus/unicorn powers and the power of the elements of harmony.

      (How exactly they were created is interesting in and of itself. They could be regular ponies imbued with the fantastic power, or beings of pure magical energy in Past Sins style. Or some sort of hybrid between the two. Or, they just could’ve been summoned by the elements, but that’s not nearly as much fun.)

      (This also leaves open the possibility for more alicorns than just Luna and Celestia. Perhaps the potentially confirmed new alicorn could fit somewhere in here? I think the Pegasi and Earth Ponies are in need of some alicorn’s derived from their powers. Balancing would require two apiece, of course.)

      These new alicorns then defeat the threat. I like the idea of this threat being Discord because it could easily be construed that he caused the pegaus/earth pony alicorns to break away from the others (perhaps to go create a nation of zebras for the earth pony alicorns or gryphons for the pegasi), or just simply defeated them and only Celestia and Luna (or more) are still alive/not-disabled (they could be trapped in stone in a manner similar to Discord).

      Then Luna rebels against Celestia (not caused by Discord! I hate that idea.) Celestia defeats her and sends her to the moon. 1000 years pass and then we have S1E1 and S1E2.

      After I’m done with my current fanfic, this is definitely happening next. I think I’m liking the multiple alicorns for each race get separated over Discord and go and make separate nations idea the most.

      Phew.

      No TL;DR version for you. Read it all. It’s worth it.

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    33. JaxsonJaguarDecember 17, 2011 at 2:17 PM

      I'm going to agree with the Theory that the Princesses were around at this time but chose to stay behind the scenes. Perhaps after creating the world they chose to see if the ponies could fend for themselves even going so far as to give Unicorns power over the Sun and Moon. Perhaps at this time the Princesses were like that of the ancient gods and just figures to be worshiped while not knowing if they were real or not.

      Then the events of this episode happened.

      Sometime later Discord shows up. He observes the ponies and feels he is the most powerful being on the planet thus using his powers against the Ponies. This causes the ponies to pray to the Princesses in hopes that they would free them from Discord. Not being able to stand it anymore the Princesses return and vanquish Discord.
      Afterward it is decided that the Princesses would remain in Equestria to rule and keep Harmony.

      That's just my theory.

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    34. NakanjaDecember 17, 2011 at 2:24 PM

      I didn't notice this until someone else pointed it out, but the flag at the end isn't the same Celestia/Luna picture from the first episode.

      The white pony's got a green mane and tail, so they changed the image. I thought that was a pretty cool detail.

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    35. GreenSpaghettiDecember 17, 2011 at 2:39 PM

      I was expecting some explanation to how Celestia and Luna ended up in charge, but looking back I don't know why I thought this episode was supposed to explain that. No description anywhere says that. Instead we learned how Pinkie Pie got her cutie mark!

      As to why alicorns were on the flag? Maybe there were alicorns back then but were rare or maybe even mythological. At the least, not in charge. Then the real deal shows up to lead them into a peaceful kingdom after Discord brings disharmony to Equestria. - or I'm overanalyzing the banner. Speculations!

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    36. Nova25December 17, 2011 at 2:45 PM

      @DutchB
      I heard that next Episode was the : 7 January ?

      ReplyDelete
    37. GreenSpaghettiDecember 17, 2011 at 2:46 PM

      @JaxsonJaguar Pretty much this. I think this is the simplest balance between canon and fanon. I say fanon because I don't think the show ever says the Princesses made the world or universe but I think a lot of us feel that way (JackleApp's Origins may have been the cause of this. At least for me. )

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    38. WizardWannabeDecember 17, 2011 at 2:53 PM

      I've said it like 8 times but I love backstory, and I loved this episode. The inclusion of Wendigo's was awesome.
      But there was a King? I wanna know about him!
      Yeah it created a bunch more questions than it answered, but I still loved it.

      ReplyDelete
    39. SomeGuyDecember 17, 2011 at 3:01 PM

      I liked the episode. Lots of great humour and character interaction. We have a play within a play that is actually a flashback. It was a great history lesson. I originally thought the episode would be more about the Mane 6 overcoming some disagreement during the play, I did not expect that the play would go so in depth into pony history. I also had the idea that this would lead into the origin of the Elements of Harmony, so much pony friendship being generated all at once, but this was good too. This was kind of saying that the Magic of Friendship is not limited to just the Elements themselves. Great lesson of co-operation and racial interaction.
      Great thing about this episode is that it confirms that Earth ponies have a connection with the earth and making plants grow. It also shows that the Greek architecture of Cloudsdale as a historical precedent and why Pegasi form a large part of the Equestrian military. We have gotten a clearer picture of the time line of pony history as well as confirming that Equestria is a single nation on the planet and not the entire world. People should not be crying about fan fic death but instead be excited about having a more defined world to play in. The episode answers some question, but opens up more. This leaves me excited to see more historical episodes and gives fan fic writers more ideas to play around with. Windigos open the way for stories about other primal forces.

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    40. gl1tchkidsDecember 17, 2011 at 3:11 PM

      So who wɐnts to bet this ends up on Fox News ɐs ɐnother example of the 'War On Christmɐs hurrdurr' because they didn't have a Ponʎ Jesus?

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    41. ScratchLoverDecember 17, 2011 at 3:32 PM

      Vinyl Scratches eyes are officially RED!!!!
      HOH MAH GOSH!!

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    42. SomeGuyDecember 17, 2011 at 3:35 PM

      Now our artists will have to start coming up with ideas as to what the founding ponies really looked like.

      ReplyDelete
    43. Vimbert the UnimpressiveDecember 17, 2011 at 3:47 PM

      A cute, fun episode that also lays waste to vast swaths of fanon? WINNING!

      ReplyDelete
    44. CharginChuckDecember 17, 2011 at 3:48 PM

      @gl1tchkids
      But there is a Pony Jesus.

      http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/File:Bowling_Ponies_2_S2E6.png

      ReplyDelete
    45. James RyeDecember 17, 2011 at 3:51 PM

      Wasn´t this the first time Twilight had those white magic-boom-eyes without the elements of harmony? Not counting that time when she was a filly?

      ReplyDelete
    46. Sgt ByrdDecember 17, 2011 at 3:55 PM

      @James Rye

      Visual effects? Twilight was just pretending to be the historical pony on stage, so she didn't actually need powerful magic, just the appearance.

      ReplyDelete
    47. WavemasterRyxDecember 17, 2011 at 3:57 PM

      It was a very interesting episode and quite enjoyable.

      Something I was wondering though, did the song at the end strike anyone else as feeling reminiscent of the anime "Kino no Tabi" (Kino's Journey)?

      ReplyDelete
    48. James RyeDecember 17, 2011 at 3:57 PM

      Ah, too bad. I had hoped it would be something similar to when Twi was so uhm *confused* by the Pinkie sense she turned into a burning pony. XD

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    49. HMorris73December 17, 2011 at 4:03 PM

      I agree with the theory that Celestia and Luna exsisted during this time (hence their images on the banner) but were more like far off deities. They didn't begin to rule directly until after the reign of Discord, which came later. Seems like the most obvious answer to me.

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    50. Crunch NuggetDecember 17, 2011 at 4:04 PM

      I thought this origin story worked really well, and I definitely like the fact that this was all said to have happened before Celestia and Luna were around. I never really agreed with the idea that they were essentially goddesses who created their world, or such, and this episode certainly suggests they're closer to normal ponies than has often been assumed.

      Also, I'm kinda surprised how many parallels it ended up having with my Harmony comic. While the details were quite different, of course, both were about an endless winter spelling apparent doom for all pony kind, until the solution came from a unity spell that worked through combined magic from each of them.

      Oh! and I love that they had Rarity riding on Twilight's back. If only it had been Applejack instead, it would have been just like my pony polo picture from a while back.

      Anyway, since this episode pretty much confirmed that Starswirl the Bearded (father of the amniomorphic spell, as Twilight called him) was around before the princesses, that creates an a possible theory for their origin. Starswirl, after seeing how powerful it was when the three pony races joined together, created the amniomorpic spell (which sounds like a magical equivalent to genetic engineering) to give that concept of racial unity a physical form. Thus the alicorns were created/born, and Starswirl was their father, in a way. And after he realized it was far too powerful to use more than a few times, he decided to let the specifics of the spell become lost to history.

      As for Discord, regardless of his origin, all that sudden harmony could have drawn him in like a beacon, so he started throwing his chaos around until the alicorns grew up enough to defeat him.

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    51. RodneylivesDecember 17, 2011 at 4:05 PM

      Has anyone noted that Spike is the narrator here? Keeping up with his announcing work I see!

      That the background to the banner has a regular pattern of dots keeping with the art style of the book in the first episode?

      Also, I can seriously see Pinkie's "Finder's keeper's loser's weepers" becoming a meme.

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    52. SYLOHDecember 17, 2011 at 4:08 PM

      Brace yourself...
      Dark Fics are coming...

      Starvation, displaced populations, war, territorial disputes, apocalyptic spirits... so much inspiration.

      Heck the whole rock thing sounds like a hundreds of real world border skirmishes that wound up escalating

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    53. SYLOHDecember 17, 2011 at 4:10 PM

      Also, the Pegasi as a militaristic society.... sounds alot like the Pegasus Enclave from Fallout: Equestria

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    54. HMorris73December 17, 2011 at 4:11 PM

      @Crunch Nugget
      The banner used at the end indicates that Celestia and Luna (or at least two alicorns very similar to them) did exist during that time. It could be a historical inaccuracy as some have suggested, but I personally don't think so. Just because it was before Celestia's reign doesn't mean she wasn't around in some form.

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    55. ChandlerDecember 17, 2011 at 4:12 PM

      Yes, analysis! Contrary to expectations, this episode actually helped my fic in development, since it gave an EXACT point for Star Swirl the Bearded in correlation to an Equestrian timeline: about 50-60 years before the founding of Equestria. I say 50 to 60 since I'd imagine he started mentoring... uh... I dunno, at age 35, when Clover the Clever began to need royal training.

      An estimate, that is. Ah well. Does that mean he's the king? No matter.

      I'd like to take the general timeline as such:

      - Equestria established
      - Discord wreaks chaos
      - Alicorns appear, stop Discord
      - Reign of Celestia and Luna begins

      It's really simple and doesn't clash with any canon points I can think of.

      As for the reason of the flags bearing alicorns, it like a whole bunch of people said. No one's going to recognize an old flag, and they may not have one.

      Alicorns not there? Another commonly said fact: it would have been rushed and low-quality, and Merriweather Williams really doesn't need more torment. I'm seriously impressed by this episode, and I have to give her a big thanks for writing it; and not just because of Mare-Do-Well.

      I just want to say one thing here. For all canon purposes, I'd like to assume Celestia is EXACTLY as she is portrayed in the show: a benevolent, kind, caring, loving, righteous ruler of Equestria. This is a kid's show, after all... I don't think Lauren, Thiessen or ANYONE will ever consider writing her as a tyrant in the grand scheme of things. It doesn't correlate with the show's origins or mentality.

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    56. RodneylivesDecember 17, 2011 at 4:14 PM

      Also --

      The alicorns are a combination of the three kinds of ponies (source: Faust, WOG). So they logically couldn't have existed until the three tribes put aside their differences. The banner probably refers to something else that occurred around that time.

      Oh, and don't forget the moral of the episode: be nice and get along OR YOU'LL FREEZE TO DEATH. WHOOOOOSH!

      ReplyDelete
    57. HMorris73December 17, 2011 at 4:17 PM

      @JohnH
      I don't follow the logic. Just because they combine the qualities of all three pony races doesn't mean they couldn't have existed before them.

      ReplyDelete
    58. RTToonistDecember 17, 2011 at 4:24 PM

      One possible explanation for the flag...

      The alicorn sisters were foretold as the saviors of Equestria (perhaps by Starswirl himself) long before their actual birth, much like the birth of the Messiah was prophesized long before the time of Christ. Equestria's founding ponies adopted them on their flag as a symbol of hope for their new nation's future.

      ReplyDelete
    59. AlondroDecember 17, 2011 at 4:31 PM

      @RTToonist

      Or perhaps the Sisters dwelt in the heavens previously, and only descended from on high to deal with the threat of Discord, binding themselves to Earth.

      Wait... Puddinghead called Equestria 'Earth'... O_O 4th wall shattered.

      Also, Starswirl predates the Princesses! He predates Canterlot! He friggin predates everything we know about their planet! Also... ROUND EQUESTRIAN PLANET NOW CANON!! D:

      ReplyDelete
    60. AlondroDecember 17, 2011 at 4:39 PM

      @White Ink

      Exactly! Celestia and Luna came to Equestria in the first place not to rule, but to stop Discord when they saw how cruel he was to all the ponies. A tyrant would never have cared. And there is absolutely nothing in the show that reveals her to be a tyrant. The ponies seem scared of her, but let's face it, these are ponies that were freaked out by a zebra. I think they tend to over-react!

      Not to mention, Luna's use of the Royal Canterlot voice was likely always intimidating, and then she kinda became an evil creature of darkness for a while.

      Celestia likes to joke with her subjects. That's not a thing tyrants do. A tyrant's version of a joke is to pretend to give a pony an award, and then chop its head off.

      She also attends functions by even the humblest of her subjects, as demonstrated by her visit to the Cake's.

      A tyrant is also paranoid, suspicious, fearful, and violent; as they always suspect someone is planning to rise up against them.

      I have studied the behavior of tyrants, and Celestia exhibits not a single one of the 'symptoms' of tyranny.

      And so, in conclusion, Celestia is... nice. :3

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    61. AlondroDecember 17, 2011 at 4:42 PM

      @ScratchLover
      WHAT?! Where was that?! I missed it!

      ReplyDelete
    62. Aquatic EnvironmentDecember 17, 2011 at 4:51 PM

      Oh, and for those who say the flag doesn't represent the sisters because "the colors are wrong," they actually match the colors in the stained glass window that shows them defeating Discord in "return of Harmony".

      ReplyDelete
    63. Aquatic EnvironmentDecember 17, 2011 at 4:54 PM

      And another thing: Did anybody notice that the building they were holding the play in looks exactly like the castle in those photos that confirmed Princess Cadence?

      ReplyDelete
    64. RobDecember 17, 2011 at 4:56 PM

      I loved this episode. End of story. :P

      ReplyDelete
    65. Nova25December 17, 2011 at 5:01 PM

      @SYLOH
      Funny fact, and quick reminder, in the episode... in the end it all ends well for the 3 kinds of ponies.

      ReplyDelete
    66. Nova25December 17, 2011 at 5:04 PM

      @Alondro
      Just don't forget that 'Equestria' is the name of the country.

      ReplyDelete
    67. HeroInfernoDecember 17, 2011 at 5:52 PM

      That was a lovely episode. <3 Really was interesting to see how Equestria came about, also I gotta say I loved how the song felt so much like a proper christmas carol.

      ReplyDelete
    68. AnonymousDecember 17, 2011 at 6:04 PM

      As mentioned by other bronies previously, I thought the episode would involve the origins of Princesses Celestia and Luna, also Discord

      ReplyDelete
    69. SourcilsDecember 17, 2011 at 6:08 PM

      Wendigos? Didn't expect that.

      ReplyDelete
    70. DruVirusDecember 17, 2011 at 6:26 PM

      @Nova25
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWAmh923ImE At 1:45. ^_^

      ReplyDelete
    71. DruVirusDecember 17, 2011 at 6:34 PM

      @Alondro
      Then again, Celestia is a lot different comparatively to her subjects unlike a normal tyrant is to their subjects. A mortal tyrant is all of those things you described when ruling mortal subjects. Celestia is, for all we know, immortal and seemingly immensely powerful. God-like, even. She has no need to be suspicious, fearful, or violent; she can just banish them to the moon. She is so far above her subjects in power that she may still be able to be a tyrant while not displaying the characteristic negatives. ;P

      ReplyDelete
    72. Bronysmith JonesDecember 17, 2011 at 6:38 PM

      I thought as an MLP:FiM episode, it was fantastic.

      As a Christmas special, I thought it was meh. I guess I was more excited about seeing how they would tackle Christmas and reinterpret into the Equestria mythos rather than the actual meat and bones of the story itself (which in itself was very well put together), as I am a sucker of Christmas specials and the thought of a MLP one got me all too hyped.

      But it was great, it was fun, at times definitely quite funny and was great to hear the origins of Equestria and how it all came to be. Buuuuuuut it's more to me a special episode of MLP:FiM rather than a *Christmas* special, but no harm done. :D BETTER THAN LAST WEEK'S, FOR SURE.

      ReplyDelete
    73. Crunch NuggetDecember 17, 2011 at 6:41 PM

      @HMorris73

      People are reading way too much into that flag. I very much doubt it was supposed to be historically accurate, for more than just the reasons others have already mentioned.

      If alicorns were godlike and watching over normal ponies in secret, then the ponies certainly wouldn't have placed them on their flag if they didn't even know about them. And if alicorns were godlike and NOT secret, the ponies would have appealed to them for salvation, not just all blamed each other and moved away. And if they weren't godlike, the normal ponies didn't seem to care about them in the first place.

      Basically, if regular ponies did know about alicorns before that fighting, AND respected them enough to use them as the symbol for their new country, they wouldn't have been so totally irrelevant to the entire story. If that flag literally represented two known alicorns alive in those days, then where were they? What did they do to suddenly deserve such a prominent place in the new country they had no role in founding?

      So while it's possible that alicorns were around before then, regardless of how likely that is, the flag is no factual proof either way, because it wasn't meant to be taken so literally as truthfully representing the past from so long ago.

      ReplyDelete
    74. MeltianDecember 17, 2011 at 6:42 PM

      I find it sort of odd how some people haven't come to similar conclusions that I have about this episode.

      1. The flag - Isn't it possible that it represented the unity of the three tribes? Wings of the Pegasus, Horn of the Unicorn, an essence of sorts from the Earth Ponies. possibly a long shot, but explaining a bit.

      2. As others have said. mythological or Historical? There had to be some sort of records left behind to at least lend some credit to the tale, so even if a lot of it is based in myth, there has to at least be some truth to it.

      3. This episode was about the founding of EQUESTRIA. Not the origin of the Princesses. Spike even said "Long before Celestia". and Discord could have come along at some point after this whole ordeal and made the ponies' lives miserable, setting in motion the events leading to the Pony Sisters' rule.

      It may have been said by now, but I don't have time to read every single comment, and I just felt like I had to say it, so there you go. I don't say this in a "I'm right, you're wrong" sort of way, but there are things to take into account, and theories other than my own are very much valid.

      ReplyDelete
    75. DruVirusDecember 17, 2011 at 6:56 PM

      @Alondro
      Or or or! Maybe it's like an Izanami/Izanagi type of deal! Maybe they are both the spirits of the sun and moon AND the progenitors of all ponies! Maybe from them came the three pony races, a fraction of each of their natural abilities (making earth ponies, unicorns, and pegasi). If this is true then maybe they are the reason there are cutie marks!! MIND = BLOWN

      ReplyDelete
    76. LittlePinkieDecember 17, 2011 at 6:57 PM

      I got excited for Spike's epic story telling, but as excited for the episode, sure it was good and all but not as good as the episodes usually are. :) Pinkie you amuze me.

      ReplyDelete
    77. Nickel GunnerDecember 17, 2011 at 6:57 PM

      @Nova25Yup, that's very much possible. You might be right, and they forgot how to do it with no one alive remembering the ancient rotes, possibly including the Princesses.

      ReplyDelete
    78. BerliDecember 17, 2011 at 6:58 PM

      My timeline theory.

      - The three pony kinds live on their own. Unicorns take care of the changing of day and night, pegasi handle weather, and earth ponies grow the food.

      - Starswirl the Bearded is the oldest pony thus known by name. Notable is that Luna also knows him, though possibly by legend only if he lived before the alicorns were there.

      - Starswirl is mentor to Clover the Clever, one of the unifiers of the three ony kinds.

      - Hearth Warming story plays as it does here.

      - Two possibilities emerge for the future:
      Discord appears sometime after this and turns the world upside down. The alicorns appear from somewhere sometime later and, possibly is a conquering Equestria move, defeat Discord.

      or, the less dark theory:
      The alicorns appear/arrive sometime after this story, but are not considered as anything more than super powerful ponies, thus they have no real governmental power over the laws established by the three pony kinds. Later Discord arrives and turns the world into chaos. The alicorns see the trouble and decide to go about defeating Discord in order to bring back the balance to the world, possibly creating the Elements of Harmony at this point (we still don't know exactly where they came from, so they might have been created by the sisters themselves). Celestia and Luna defeat Discord as per what Celestia has stated previously and, as a thank you from the ponies, are recognized as the general rulers of Equestria in exchange for their continued protection. They also assume control of the sun&moon. This just a theory, but would factor in the absence of the alicorns from the Hearth Warming legend/story that otherwise could never omit their beloved ruler if Celestia actually was there back in the day. Thus it is likely that the alicorns were not there in the first place and only appeared sometime later on (possibly c.2000-3000 years ago).

      - Follows the rule of Celestia and Luna (will have to see what the other alicorn is going to actually turn out to be, though, and whether this will fill in any blanks in Equestrian history).

      - Then, after a period of their joint rule, a thousand years before the series starts, Luna gets jealous/possessed/whatever, becomes NMM and is banished to the Moon.

      - Celestia rules alone for a thousand years, and then NMM returns, bringing us to the present day when the Elements of Harmony are again brought out to defeat her.

      That's still a lot of conjecture, but fits in with what has been told us thus far. And the Equestrian banner in the end with Celestia and Luna on it is likely just a simplified usage of the nation's modern banner, there to make the point more obvious to the audience instead of using the original banner of the time (which personally would make more sense to somehow incorporate the three tribes in it somehow as a sign of their unity).

      That's my guess-theory-fanon speculation.

      ReplyDelete
    79. BerliDecember 17, 2011 at 7:07 PM

      *Correction,

      just checked the Return of Harmony episode, Celestia said they "found" the Elements, so okay they were made before the alicorns. But otherwise things still fit together.

      ReplyDelete
    80. Nickel GunnerDecember 17, 2011 at 7:11 PM

      @DruVirus

      Uh, no.

      She used the Elements of Harmony to banish Luna; She didn't do it herself.

      Nitpicking, I know, but it seems like so many people are forgetting this little detail.

      ReplyDelete
    81. DruVirusDecember 17, 2011 at 7:29 PM

      @Nickel Gunner
      She did use them to banish Luna into the moon, true. But I also think she could do it herself if she really wanted to. She does seem quite powerful, after all. The only reason she needed the EoH to begin with, probably, was because of whom she was banishing: another extremely powerful alicorn. Celestia's power alone couldn't do the trick. ;] But some peasant in the streets? Totally able to fling him to the moon.

      ReplyDelete
    82. SYLOHDecember 17, 2011 at 7:51 PM

      @Nova25
      There's an old saying
      "One can find a happy ending if one just picks a up moment and stops there"

      It's also not a stretch to imagine a somewhat brutal take over of the land by Luna/Celestia.

      But then again one can always find a dark subtext in anything, this episode exemplifies it.

      It's all in good fun, I enjoyed this episode, I like how we're finally getting some historical background.

      Also... no more ponies pulling trains! Yay!

      ReplyDelete
    83. FleymevasDecember 17, 2011 at 8:25 PM

      Here's my theory. The whole play is just a made up story! The sisters have always existed since the beginning of time and unicorn simple cannot raise and lower the sun and moon. Yeah, that works, right?

      ...Right...?

      *sobs quietly in the corner*

      ReplyDelete
    84. AnonymousDecember 17, 2011 at 8:40 PM

      Late reply due to internet derping, but w/e.

      I've got one thing to say:

      Move over, Luna Eclipsed, this is my new favorite episode. This one had me laughing all the way through. Pinkie might have moved up a notch on my list. Excellent work from the entire team. Season 2 has yet to disappoint me; keep 'em coming.

      The instant I heard the train in the opening chaser, I started looking for Derpy.

      Does that mean anything?

      ReplyDelete
    85. HMorris73December 17, 2011 at 8:51 PM

      @Crunch Nugget
      I'll grant that it's not proof, but I personally doubt such a specific detail would be included if it wasn't meant to be accurate. My theory (and I make no claim that it's anything more than a theory) is that at the time Celestia and Luna were only known as the sun and moon spirits (in the same way that Discord is the spirit of chaos the Windigo are winter spirits), and that while the ponies revered them they had no way of appealing to them directly. It was only later (possibly during Discords reign) that they came to live among the ponies.

      ReplyDelete
    86. HMorris73December 17, 2011 at 8:54 PM

      @Fleymevas
      I don't think the play contradicts the notion of the sisters always existing.

      ReplyDelete
    87. Nova25December 17, 2011 at 9:06 PM

      @SYLOH
      Don't tell me you have something against ponies pulling the train to Appleloosa ?

      In this episode, it was a smaller, lighter train for passengers-only it would seem... going to Canterlot (so probably enchanted or something).
      The train to Appleloosa was more massive, apparently for both passengers and merchandises. (Probably done 'the earth pony way'... maybe just a tiny bit of magic involved somewhere in it).

      I don't get why some people were so damn upset about the 'train pulled by ponies' thing, when that one episode came. Just seem a bit ridiculous ?

      ReplyDelete
    88. JustinDecember 17, 2011 at 9:14 PM

      I loved this episode and now we know Starswirl had a much bigger role, and I loved the banter between the 3 tribe leaders and their secretaries/lieutenants/magical bodyguards having Applejack, Fluttershy, and Twilight ultimately save the day was awesome! The costumes, the banners and flags, and the train were all sweet set pieces.

      ReplyDelete
    89. dincDecember 17, 2011 at 9:54 PM

      Wow! This episode blew my mind! The writing was fantastic, and the art and music were great (as they always are). I loved all of the ponies in this, but especially Pinkie Pie! Man, I laughed so hard!

      Great job Studio B / TopDraw! You guys deserve a freaking emmy for this gem! For realz. Whoever wrote this episode also gets mad props from me; I couldn't imagine more interesting and fitting pony lore, and I've read more than my fair share of fanfiction ^_^.

      I could gush forever about this! All of the characters were used so well, and the whole thing conveyed a Christmas-ness that was both genuine and universal. I loved, loved, loved this. This is what MLP is all about: expertly written stories, finely crafted art, attention to detail, friendship, and magic!

      ReplyDelete
    90. pmcollectorboyDecember 17, 2011 at 10:12 PM

      Odd as it may seem, but I'd give this episode a fair grade. About a 7 or a solid bronze. I like Pinkie Pie being Pinkie Pie and the jokes as they happened, but after it was over, I was left wanting more.

      ReplyDelete
    91. Rob CampanaDecember 17, 2011 at 10:33 PM

      Are rocks becoming a recurring joke?

      ReplyDelete
    92. JakeDecember 17, 2011 at 10:47 PM

      I loved how they stuck Applejack and Pinkie Pie together. They played off of each other really well.

      ReplyDelete
    93. DakarosDecember 17, 2011 at 10:48 PM

      so questria was made ...before luna and celestia appeared, where do they came form?...starswirl lived in an pre equestria era, and lune said she knew him soooo... we need more equestrian history lol

      ReplyDelete
    94. HighMasterDJDecember 17, 2011 at 10:51 PM

      was this befor Discord or was this due to Discord?

      ReplyDelete
    95. BeatfoxDecember 17, 2011 at 10:52 PM

      @Dakaros
      Luna never said that she knew Starswirl. Where do people keep getting this?

      ReplyDelete
    96. LittleJoeRamblerDecember 17, 2011 at 11:03 PM

      @Beatfox
      Luna immediately recognized Twilight's costume in Nightmare Night. It leads to two possibilities: Either Luna knew Starswirl while he was alive, or was familiar enough with his legacy/appearance to recognize him. Personally I lean towards the latter. Since she's a royal pony, it would stand to reason that she would know Equestrian history better than almost anyone.

      ReplyDelete
    97. Pav FeiraDecember 17, 2011 at 11:55 PM

      "And that's how Pinkie Pie got her cutie mark." Several posters used that joke, and it took me far too long to figure out. I disappoint myself :(

      Luna knowing (of) Star Swirl -- Remember Luna's quote from that episode. "Star Swirl the Bearded. Commendable costume! Thou even got the bells right." True, she never explicitly says she was alive at the same time as him, but to borrow somepony's example from an earlier comment, would you be able to identify a Halloween costume of Shakespeare and Socrates? IMO I'd just see a Renaissance dude in tights, and a bearded dude in a toga. Luna instantly recognized who Twi was dressed as... I _suppose_ a bell'd wizard hat might be a unique identifier (like Lincoln's stovepipe hat)? Dunno, Luna and Star Swirl being alive at the same time just seems simpler. Then again, Spike's intro did say this takes place _long_ before Celestia, so SHRUG.

      Unicorns being able to control the sun/moon seemed a bit odd at first, but I think I'm fine with it. Since magic is mandatory for day/night to occur, this would have to imply either 1) Celestia and Luna aren't the only alicorns to ever exist (they had alicorn ancestors) 2) Celestia and Luna literally invented day and night (before their births, there was just perpetual day), or 3) what this episode picked, unicorns were able to move the sun/moon, not just the alicorn princesses with appropriate cutie marks.

      Derpy was win. Pinkie Pie was win. Applejack was win. Everypony wins.

      I missed the memo that we all hate Merriwether Williams (apparantly). Can somepony fill me in? This ep was definitely better than Mare Do Well, but I hadn't thought Mare Do Well was awful or anything...

      Hmm, so not only does common fanon say that earth ponies get the shaft, having neither wings nor magic, but this episode shows full-on oppression. Pinkie Pie even uses the term "non-earths" during the opening leader summit, and Rainbow Dash makes cracks about "what a shocker, an earth pony with no ideas" and "earth ponies are numbskulls". Granted, the other two leaders were also talking ill of each other, but that struck me as more an Athens/Sparta thing, nothing all that malicious. This earth pony vs. non-earth rift struck me as much more serious. Granted, there has been and will be plenty of fanon works on the matter, but I wouldn't mind some more canon touches on the matter. Plenty of good "no pony race is better or worse than any other pony race" morals for the target demographic. Then again, in this episode, ponies of different races fighting over one piece of land: corollary for the Middle East?

      Applejack: "The map is also upside down."
      Pinkie Pie: "The earth is round. There is no up or down."
      This line is so deliciously right and wrong at the same time <3

      So, how long until somepony whips up a 4-part harmony for that national anthem, and it starts getting sung at all event?

      ReplyDelete
    98. Pav FeiraDecember 18, 2011 at 12:11 AM

      @WhitFoxUnicorn magic can raise the sun? (Someone should have told Nightmare Moon that....)
      In my headcanon, Nightmare Moon didn't just bring up the moon; she was magically holding the moon up / holding the sun down. A gaggle of unicorns wouldn't be able to match it. You'd either need an equally-strong alicorn (Celestia's whereabouts that night remain debated), or defeat Nightmare Moon.

      @Crunch Nugget
      So Luna recognized the Star Swirl costume, because she's his magic test tube daughter? That... actually works bizarrely well IMHO. Doesn't conflict with Luna Eclipsed nor Hearth's Warming Eve. Subtle brony-only clue provide in the word "amniomorphic". Keeps things subtle so as not to weird out the target demographic.

      ReplyDelete
    99. Master ShemsuDecember 18, 2011 at 12:26 AM

      Happy Hearth Warming Eve.
      MY FIRST POST EVER!!!
      *woohoo*

      ReplyDelete
    100. Nova25December 18, 2011 at 12:46 AM

      @Pav Feira
      > 1)... 2)... 3)...
      -Why do people always forget the rather important details that are : The HUGE amount of power/magic needed for moving the Sun&Moon... and the complexity of the spell (or ritual, you know... ancient time, old kinds of magic) ?

      The huge amount of power/magic needed and probable high-complexity of what is involved, which we know Alicorns possess... kinda means that the number of unicorns needed in those ancient times (especially with less knowledgeable and powerful unicorns) had to be quite (very) large.

      Also, after Celestia and Luna started moving the Sun&Moon, the ancient unicorns most likely forgot the spells/ritual involved, now more than happy to let the Princesses do this job for them.

      ReplyDelete
    101. AnonymousDecember 18, 2011 at 1:12 AM

      I don't understand why people are treating this as history. The only things that are canon in this episode are that Derpy doesn't know you're supposed to peek round the edge of the curtain rather than through the middle, and that Equestrian communities have a winter tradition of putting on an origins play. The content of the play itself isn't canon because it's a play.

      When did you last see a Christmas play that was a factual history lesson? It may have some basis on its source material with major inaccuracies thrown in (think three kings at the birth of Jesus) or it may be a complete fabrication (elves making toys at the north pole), but either way it won't be intended as reference material. Hearth Warming Eve is almost certainly the same: festive fun taking elements from various stages of Pony history and mythology and combining them into a seasonal diversion. It's not the Encyclopaedia Equestria.

      ReplyDelete
    102. Flavin BagelDecember 18, 2011 at 1:22 AM

      I thought that was an absolutely fantastic episode. Great character moments, world expansion... Mmmmm. I have no clue what the few people are complaining about here.

      As far as historical fanon goes, I'll just stick with what the show gives me and just relax. Cuz it's just a show.

      ReplyDelete
    103. One Radical DudeDecember 18, 2011 at 1:23 AM

      I didn't have much to comment on this episode, but I did enjoy it (not my favorite of the season, but closer to the top tier of episodes). I really liked how the seven main characters were used during the play. I thought the best moments were from Pinkie for the biggest laughs, and Spike was great as a narrator (love his imitation of an English accent). I enjoyed hearing about Equestria's history, as well as the Pegasi, Unicorns, and Earth Ponies.

      Spike actually was seen singing (that hasn't happened in FIM, yet, until now). I only wish we could have heard his vocals (maybe we will eventually in another ep). None of the character's vocals could be distinguished (not to me, anyway), since all at the play were singing.

      I'm kinda bummed that there won't be another new episode until next month, but a break is nice.

      ReplyDelete
    104. Chaosbo1December 18, 2011 at 1:33 AM

      so earth was founded by ponies.

      ReplyDelete
    105. Chaosbo1December 18, 2011 at 1:36 AM

      so earth was founded by Ponies.

      ReplyDelete
    106. AnonymousDecember 18, 2011 at 1:59 AM

      Don't know if it's been mentioned already, but Clover the Clever might have been a reference to this G2 pony. Clever Clover was a colt, which is interesting. . .

      http://mylittlewiki.org/wiki/Clever_Clover

      ReplyDelete
    107. Brony4LifeDecember 18, 2011 at 2:10 AM

      It seemed criminally short.

      ReplyDelete
    108. El_DaraxDecember 18, 2011 at 2:41 AM

      @Jimperator

      About the Luna knowing Starswirl thing:

      Apparently since this ep points out that Starswirl was the mentor of one of the "original elements"....and knowing that he is a important historical figure (due to Twilight's knowledge).

      Maybe Luna didn't KNOW him....just knew OF HIM. Including his cape + bells + beard style of dress. I'd think the two ruling leaders would be at least as book-read as twilight...and twilight definitely didn't KNOW HIM personally and still knew how he dressed.

      I'm sure someone made a ancient portrait somewhere...and how many ponys have you seen with bells on.

      :P

      ReplyDelete
    109. El_DaraxDecember 18, 2011 at 2:55 AM

      @frith

      "The cast are horrible to RD in Mare"

      Oh...here we go again.

      Sometimes lessons need to be taught the hard way.

      I wish I had someone around more often w/ the balls to tell me when I'm being a jerk. (sometimes I luckily do)

      Because...in all honesty I was likely not meaning to be.

      Sometimes yer' friends gotta reel you in when you are acting badly.
      It makes you a better person (pony) in the long run.

      I still don't get all the mare-do-well rage from the RD-fanbois that still circulateto this day.

      ReplyDelete
    110. KliceDecember 18, 2011 at 4:05 AM

      Not "Before Celestia", it's "Before the peaceful reign of Celestia".

      But as some other fellows already say, it's just a play !

      Anyway, nice episode !

      ReplyDelete
    111. Tears of a ValedictorianDecember 18, 2011 at 5:24 AM

      Pinkie Pie and Fluttershy were best pony.

      "Pegasusususi!"

      ReplyDelete
    112. ultra8December 18, 2011 at 5:37 AM

      A nice festive episode with a neat backstory and plenty of humor all wrapped in heartwarming vibes.
      Now comes the big questions...
      1)Was Pinkie just being her self while acting the role or was the real Chancellor Pudinghead just as nutty as she is?

      2)Are there still ponies living in the lands they vacated to found Equestria?

      3)I wonder what the previous lands were called.

      So this came from the same writer that did Mare-do-Well. Nicely done lady. Don't understand all the hate for that episode, sure it was predictable but this is a kids show afterall(those usually go hand in hand), it's as long as it's fun that counts.

      And alot of you need to just relax, the rate some of your are going you'll just give yourself a migrain or grey hairs.

      ReplyDelete
    113. ApplejinxDecember 18, 2011 at 6:48 AM

      I thought it was a beautiful episode on a number of fronts- mostly, the moral of the episode, which was made both on the historical and the present-day level.

      Basically, ponies HAVE to be kind because if they are cruel and contemptuous to each other, windigoes come and freeze their hearts and indeed their world. I think those are REAL THINGS like air molecules and they're still around.

      So all the fanon discussion about pony racism (note the Pudd'n'head Wilson reference? Mark Twain novel- about the effects of racism and how arbitrary but damaging that is- racism is institutionalized contempt, plain and simple)... all that discussion is meaningless and full of windigoes. You cannot get up an argument of 'why does earth ponies exist when they suck so hard?' and start throwing around the ways different pony races 'beat' each other without totally missing the point that they do not compete in that way, and now it is CANON that they don't compete in that way because it gives them windigoes and they'd all die.

      As for fanon-destroyin' properties- I'm just thrilled, because I wrote a fic ('The Old Castle', somewhat controversial) where Rarity assists Twi with a spell she doesn't know, and Fluttershy, Pinkie and Dash seem to chip in. I didn't dare to explicitly say the latter three helped with the magic but I could have- because it's now canon that you can buff a unicorn's magic by combining all races of ponies in a sort of HEART-MELD.

      And I love that, just love it.

      And love "The earth is round. There is no up or down!" *brain-splode*

      I think this was incredibly well written, seriously. It covers so much, so quickly, while remaining fun, and the lessons it teaches- wow.

      Let's everybody make a special effort to not be contemptuous of each other so the windigoes don't eat our hearts :)

      ReplyDelete
    114. EwyndallDecember 18, 2011 at 6:48 AM

      I really loved this episode. I couldn't ask for more for a holiday episode. Nicely presented, great animation and voice acting as always and a song that I could easily imagine as the national antheme of the brony nation :)

      There are tons of shows out there which make an "obligatoty" Xmas episode, and they reek of annoying clichés and senselessness (lovely word, isnt it?).

      Here we got something more. Yes it is still the old message but we got it wrapped in a new shiny box. I love that it has nothing to do with religion, countries, cultures or anything, the message is simple, universal and everlasting.

      Honestly. Great episode. :)

      My one and ONLY concern is probably Fluttershy. Her character seems to be slightly "stuck" in the latest episodes. I want to see her character developing a bit more :)

      Additionally:
      It was nice to see her in the beginning "I feel like shouting wohoo" but I think that was a tiny bit awkward. A bit forced.
      And I didn't like her arguing in the last scene. It's not like her.

      I wish you all Happy Holidays !!!

      P.S.: Pinkie for president !!!
      P.P.S.: "Can YOU think inside a chimney?" I can hardly wait to use this somewhere :D

      ReplyDelete
    115. mylittlemaxyDecember 18, 2011 at 8:40 AM

      the song at the end should so be adopted as the brony national anthem

      ReplyDelete
    116. Lee Zhi-LiDecember 18, 2011 at 8:49 AM

      Alright, I'll give my two cents worth 'cos I'm seeing more itsy bitsy details to world-build than I am seeing how people rate this ep!

      Overall, a really well done episode with an engaging concept. To 'relive' the past in play form was really clever and the characters that the mane 6 played really drove home the concept of friendship, which was beautifully brought out by the story.

      I must mention the animation as it was a step above some other episodes, with a really varied landscape and the windigoes were really well animated.

      And the humor, wow, Applejack called the land they found 'Earth'. So much mind-blowing humor, the awesome levels were through the roof.

      Any cons? Hmm, honestly, I don't count a lack of focus on the mane 6 as a flaw, and that means I can't think of any right now, which is a mark of a really solid episode, definitely an episode to put thee in a Christmas mood.

      Also, on a side note, I noticed the Equestrian flag everyone was talking about, look closer, it's not Luna or Celestia.

      5/5

      ReplyDelete
    117. Nickel GunnerDecember 18, 2011 at 9:10 AM

      Just a note: Mistrust and resentment was rampant BEFORE the coming of the Windigos. They began truly despising each other as a result of the cold and the famine that the Windigos brought which in turn made the spirits more powerful, so I'm not sure the message was "don't hate OR ELSE"- more like "hatred is destructive and pointless and feeds into itself".

      ReplyDelete
    118. James RyeDecember 18, 2011 at 9:36 AM

      What i really liked was how the fire magic heart burned those Windigos. :D

      ReplyDelete
    119. b0b4_f3tt_043December 18, 2011 at 9:43 AM

      I like how this episode provides some backstory while still leaving plenty of room for fans to speculate. (Just look at all the conspiracy theories.) Also, it would seem that the fanon is left mostly intact for now.

      On missing details or factual inconsistencies within the play, I'll just echo what others have said:
      - it's probably based on a myth /heavily cleaned up version of Equestrian history
      - it's cleverly designed propaganda!

      Pointless analyzing and nitpicking aside, this is a very impressive episode.

      P.S. Spartan-pegasi are awesome!

      ReplyDelete
    120. AnonymousDecember 18, 2011 at 9:49 AM

      Awww...it was such a lovely episode before christmas time, it really got me in the mood.
      Also, Chancellor Pinkie FTW! XD

      ReplyDelete
    121. b0b4_f3tt_043December 18, 2011 at 10:42 AM

      @El_Darax
      Well, RD is my favorite character but I don't understand the rage directed at Mare-Do-Well either. Personally, I liked Mare-Do-Well just fine.

      In terms of RD's portrayal, it wasn't like she was acting totally out of line. Her craving for attention was just an exagerrated character quirk, which was somewhat necessary for the delivery of that episode's lesson. At least she stayed valiant throughout and didn't resort to any underhanded tactics, i.e. creating problems as part of an attention seeking stunt. Now THAT would've ruined RD D:

      As for the main cast being harsh, I can't agree on that either. Indeed, sometimes lessons need to be learnt the hard way.
      Besides, putting all the fanfics aside, Dash is tough and badass. She'd most likely forget about her short 'emo moment' by the next day.

      Sure, the plot was predictable in that one, but let's not forget who the real target audience of the show are. Either way, the writer did more than enough to prove herself with Hearth's Warming Eve, which I dare say is one of the best episodes of S2 thus far.

      ReplyDelete
    122. AnonymousDecember 18, 2011 at 11:31 AM

      @El_Darax Actually El_Darax, that was part of the problem: the mane cast did not have the balls to tell Rainbow Dash that she was being a jerk in Mare Do Well. We know Rainbow Dash listens to her friends, that she can see the errors of her ways and recant. But my point is that this is not how Merriweather sees the mane cast. Her approach is more in line with situation comedy than with the drama we usually see in MLP:FIM. Her approach is that the mane cast are puppets with set personalities. They aren't shown to be learning from their mistakes. That's fine for a cartoon like Bugs Bunny where all the episodes can be seen in any order and where Elmer Fudd is always the same buffoon. If the Roadrunner runs so fast as to break the sound barrier, I couldn't care less -- the Roadrunner is just a puppet with no past and no future. Rainbow Dash makes a Sonic Rainboom and I weep for joy. Rainbow Dash is somepony, she has has a past and a future, as does all the cast. That's drama.

      So when a writter pulls the history out of the cast and has them act in character but without any sign that they have learned or can learn lessons about friendship, the fanbois, they rage, eh?

      My point is I see where the writter is coming from, why she wrote both episodes this way. She is playing static characters against a morality lesson and she is using them to illustrate what not to do. With her tried and true approach, there is no change to the characters, nothing that will affect future episodes. Hasbro stipulated that the episodes be stand alone, with the exception of two part season pilots. And Merriweather delivered. Thus, the mane cast illustrates the lesson but doesn't learn it. Thus no letter and no improvement to mane cast personality.

      ReplyDelete
    123. CybeargDecember 18, 2011 at 11:57 AM

      Great episode! Glad to hear some history!

      Fans, don't fool yourselves; the writers/developers do NOT read your fics. Any correlation is purely coincidental. Don't whine and complain because things aren't how you wanted. If FiM began to merely emulate the fanfics, my interest in the show would be gone. If you want the show to be like your fanfics, make your own episodes in Flash.

      ReplyDelete
    124. HMorris73December 18, 2011 at 1:01 PM

      @frith

      They started to bicker briefly, but caught themselves pretty quick. The meaning of the play was not lost on them. As for the Mare Do Well thing, yeah I'm not getting into that argument.

      ReplyDelete
    125. HMorris73December 18, 2011 at 1:09 PM

      @Lee Zhi-Li

      Look at the stained glass window which depicts Celestia and Luna turning Discord to stone, then look back at the flag. They look exactly the same.

      ReplyDelete
    126. Chrispy CrunchDecember 18, 2011 at 1:25 PM

      And thats my fellow bronies is how Pinkie pie got her cutie mark.

      ReplyDelete
    127. AnonymousDecember 18, 2011 at 1:31 PM

      @HMorris73 They did catch themselves, after they heard the Windigoes screaming... I don't think they should have been fighting at all after the play. They fought enough before the play, they should have caught themselves immediately upon finding the window open after the play, to show that they didn't need to burn themselves every single time they get too close to the fire.

      ReplyDelete
    128. El_DaraxDecember 18, 2011 at 4:33 PM

      @bob3_f3tt_043

      I'm kinda in your side of the aisle in thinking.
      The only difference is that RD is my least fav char, mostly due to her char traits. (i.e. flaws that pet peeve me ;p )

      I will admit some of my anti-mare-do-well-rage scoffing is due to that bias. It's interesting to see a RD fan that doesn't think the other mane 5's approach to the situation wasn't "overdone" or "douchey", etc.

      @frith

      You make a valid point....they mostly talked amongst themselves about how RD was overflaunting her ego. (which is already the size of Celestia's star) They never just flat out said "stfu" to her unless I'm mistaken.

      I may need to go rewatch that ep...which is fine by me...cuz' more pony is always fine by me.

      ReplyDelete
    129. Nickel GunnerDecember 18, 2011 at 5:11 PM

      @El_Darax

      From what I can gather, Mare-Do-Well was a lesson in humility delivered by practical joke, just the right approach for Rainbow.

      ReplyDelete
    130. ilovebagelzDecember 18, 2011 at 8:00 PM

      I love how this episode gives the finger to religion and comes up with a folk tale, sounds familiar but don't know where from. I didn't like the a few forced jokes that Pinkie Pie did. Fluttershy was awesome. I noticed that when Twilight Yelled, "Pinkie" it sounded like exactly the same from season 1 episode 3, I guess they used the same sound clip...

      Other than that I like the backstory and it killed a lot of fannon! xD

      ReplyDelete
    131. FoxManeDecember 18, 2011 at 8:00 PM

      UGH!!!! WHY DID I MISS IT? WHY?!!!!!

      ReplyDelete
    132. Visiden VisidaneDecember 19, 2011 at 1:02 AM

      Interesting to note that there was a unicorn king (since Princess Platinum was introduced as "daughter of the unicorn king") and he couldn't even be bothered to attend a very important summit.

      ReplyDelete
    133. BemmoDecember 19, 2011 at 8:24 AM

      11:44 "The Earth is round, there is no up or down." Pinkie is navigating in Equestria and apparently Earth too, meaning EQUESTRIA IS A PLACE ON EARTH!

      ReplyDelete
    134. BemmoDecember 19, 2011 at 8:35 AM

      @Bemmo
      No, wait, they just visiteds Earth and then turned it into Equestria.

      ReplyDelete
    135. thegamefilmgurumanDecember 19, 2011 at 11:00 AM

      My thoughts:

      After defeating Discord, Celestia and Luna were too weak to rule. In the resulting power vacuum, most ponies thought they could do better on their own and left, forming their own feudal system. Later when the princesses had recovered, they returned to rule once more (possibly asked by the citizens of Equestria in a time of political turmoil). Think of it as a Pony Dark Ages theory.

      ReplyDelete
    136. BiboDecember 21, 2011 at 7:06 PM

      Ponyarchive was taken down.

      ReplyDelete
    137. MasterContinuumDecember 21, 2011 at 10:13 PM

      What would you do if somepony had a Gen. 3.5 pony as their Avatar?

      ReplyDelete
    138. ChiaroscuroDecember 21, 2011 at 11:52 PM

      There's a pegasus pony with a tan rainbow cutie mark, visible at 2:23 in. I hereby dub him 'Caldor'.

      ...most of you won't get that, but those that do will agree.

      ReplyDelete
    139. animefan222December 23, 2011 at 9:57 AM

      And the 1080p has been claimed by copyright

      ReplyDelete
    140. AnonymousDecember 23, 2011 at 11:56 AM

      @animefan222, yeah, I was just gonna watch it today too. Great.

      ReplyDelete
    141. PistolePlexDecember 23, 2011 at 12:04 PM

      Ugggggh.... I got flagged by 'HASBRO.INC' apparently. Wat do, guys.

      ReplyDelete
    142. PistolePlexDecember 23, 2011 at 12:11 PM

      Copyright Counter-Notification

      "This video is not eligible for a counter-notification."

      Google can take a log up their flanks.

      ReplyDelete
    143. RoastCaboseDecember 23, 2011 at 1:22 PM

      Well, s***. I haven't even seen the entire episode yet!

      ReplyDelete
    144. RoastCaboseDecember 23, 2011 at 1:23 PM

      Anybody have another link? I would be fine with a non 1080p link to!

      ReplyDelete
    145. PistolePlexDecember 23, 2011 at 2:12 PM

      @RoastCabose

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HjCuzalpUw

      ReplyDelete
    146. MaquabraDecember 23, 2011 at 6:55 PM

      PonyArchive was easily abandoned so HasNObro is going all-out :]

      ReplyDelete
    147. dark75darkDecember 23, 2011 at 7:59 PM

      @TheIdlingRev
      I was disappointing, to me this episode really sucked.

      ReplyDelete
    148. Milan ŠeligaDecember 25, 2011 at 1:23 AM

      What about some megaupload links or so on? Support a show is nice idea, but I won't support Apple in parasiting on my favourite show. Never.

      ReplyDelete
    149. HighMasterDJDecember 25, 2011 at 6:47 AM

      flawless episode
      New Favorite

      ReplyDelete

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