• Project Horizons Comments Thread #1

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    Ponies are the best weapon wielders.

    Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons has capped out! Hit up the section below to continue discussion from the actual story post.
    Sunday, December 11, 2011 op
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    1. kirbuuJanuary 25, 2012 at 10:16 PM

      blackjack originally looked to p-21 as a source of inspiration seeing him as a clever good pony. With that decal hes never shown his cutie mark. However when he found a locked door he taught himself how to pick locks when he realizes computers could have info he wants he learns how to hack, he escaped from the stable and discovered that the outside world was full of threats and so taught himself explosives to blow away his obstacles. my theory the way he faces and tears thru whatever is in his way his cutie mark is a Drill!

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    2. ScygnusJanuary 25, 2012 at 10:17 PM

      People that have spoiler eyes... I do that sometimes, but more often when the story is boring me than during a tense part. Thus didn't really do it with this one.

      But as a suggestion, if you have a phone with internet, you might try reading it on that, so you can only see a few lines at any given time. That's how I read most of PH. While at work. Amusingly, I'm a security guard. I have a Kindle too (got it for christmas this year) but I don't want to screw around with updating it over and over, so I'll probably hold off on putting PH on it until it's done. Did the same for FO:E. May have to update it with the .mobi version anyway, since the pdf version I picked up doesn't have chapter links and such.

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    3. Admiral Stoic "Crusader" RumJanuary 25, 2012 at 10:54 PM

      @kirbuu actually, P21 learned to hack terminals from Duct Tape, and picking locks as a foal, its how he got to listen in in the classes. Likely Duct Tape taught it to him too... although i cannot be sure since I cannot remember who the filly was that met with him after the classes. He learned explosives from books and magazines. That I do remember.
      As far as we know right now P21 "doesn't" have his cutie mark, its under the male designation. then again he may and we find out sometime in the near future. Anyway is anyone else thinking of tantric twilight and big Macintosh sex? I mean its weird to try and picture in the head (not as an image, but as literature.) Then again, my head is not like other heads.

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    4. kirbuuJanuary 25, 2012 at 10:54 PM

      of course this theory would eventually end with sanguine fused with cyberdaemon and the security team facing him down in giant flaming Blackjack mech that may or may not be representation of the soul of Go Fish...

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    5. Admiral Stoic "Crusader" RumJanuary 25, 2012 at 11:12 PM

      @kirbuuWHat if they had colored uniforms to match their team? and the giant flaming blackjack was assembled from smaller machines that the team rides?

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    6. OldWorldBlueJanuary 25, 2012 at 11:20 PM

      With P-21's luck he'd probably drive the machine that forms the tail on the giant flaming Blackjack robot. "And I form....*sigh* the tail." -_-'

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    7. MechJanuary 25, 2012 at 11:23 PM

      My, my, there has been a bit of a lack of Goldenblood hasn't there. Time to remedy this.

      http://mistermech.deviantart.com/art/Goldenblood-281567317

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    8. RoboRedJanuary 25, 2012 at 11:25 PM

      @swicked

      That was a good poem. Nay, that was an amazing poem. A little cumbersome to read at a couple points, but still very amazing.

      It's really something to see BlackJack's self-sacrifice explained in another way - in her own words.

      It's interesting, juxtaposing this with all that happened leading up to her end as how it was told in Ch33. It's like a concurrent internal monologue. It gives deeper meaning to hear her explain herself whilst not tethered down to reality.

      And towards the end, makes it feel all the more tragic.

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    9. SomberJanuary 25, 2012 at 11:26 PM

      SIGH...

      Sorry everypony. I don't mean to be uncommunicative. I've just come to the realization that my original plan for PH won't work as is and I'll have to be creative and fix it. So I'll let you know if we change things or not.

      Urrrgh... ::Pulls a scootaloo:: Stupid stupid stupid...

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    10. FeintingfoxJanuary 25, 2012 at 11:32 PM

      @Somber
      Well better to take your time now than having to deal with plot holes later on. Good luck!

      ReplyDelete
    11. swickedJanuary 25, 2012 at 11:38 PM

      @RoboRed
      It used to have a lot of awkward lines. Lots of editing and getting annoyed as a line that seemed perfect one day I found myself reading entirely differently the next. Like... with smiling, I would read it smi-ling one time, then smi-uh-ling the next. Then I changed it to grinning to fix the issue. I'm probably not going to touch it anymore at this point, though, so it's okay if it's less than perfect.

      I'm really glad you liked it :D

      @Somber Well, good luck, here's hoping for the best...

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    12. RoboRedJanuary 25, 2012 at 11:49 PM

      @Somber

      *sigh*...The best-laid plans o' mice and men often go awry...

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    13. shadefoxJanuary 26, 2012 at 12:00 AM

      Hmm... I just feel you should be careful with killing off the main character. (If that's what the intent is).

      People might be in it for "BlackJack's Story", rather than "EC-1101's Story" or "GoldenBlood's Story".

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    14. Overlong Analysis CobaltJanuary 26, 2012 at 12:22 AM

      @Somber
      Ah, I love/hate it when that happens. It's an opportunity to make things, y'know, more awesome, but it sucks when the stuff you've planned out fails to pan out. Anyway, it sounds like you are taking care of business, and I'm confident that you'll figure it out. And hey, the last round of changes were cool, got us looking back more than we used to and helped us with all our conspiracy theory crafting!

      Bon courage, Somber!

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    15. WavemasterRyxJanuary 26, 2012 at 12:26 AM

      @Somber
      I'm sorry Somber, I hope you can figure out what to do. Please take whatever time you need.
      After you publish 34 though, I'd be interested to know what direction you were considering going, if you do indeed end up changing it.


      @Overlong Analysis Cobalt
      Thank you very much *smiles*

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    16. Random BlankJanuary 26, 2012 at 12:57 AM

      @Stoic
      Tantric Twi&Bigmac - certainly not equine style, her legs would give in from his weight way too fast. But with her on top...?

      @Bronode Equine estrus: Little known fact, besides bonobo and dolphins, horses have sex for fun too. Although this is almost never noticed.
      Sex during pregnancy causes abortion for equines, so a pregnant mare opposes it violently and stallions don't feel compelled to it. (except one special case, irrelevant here). Wild mares are pregnant 90% of the time - foal birth triggers very strong estrus about 8 days afterwards, and the mare enters usually gets impregnated again. Old and mares and fillies are "not interested". OTOH in domestic breeding mares are always separated from stallions except for breeding cycle. Geldings are sexually inactive. Thus the behavior is almost never observed.
      But there was an experiment, mares were kept in the same same pasture as stallions after vasectomy. The mares even out of estrus would frequently solicit sex of these stallions by purposeful, teasing behavior.

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    17. Random BlankJanuary 26, 2012 at 1:05 AM

      @Derpmind
      Next chapter being "Jack" - I hope not. Blackjack sending Hell to Hell?

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    18. SindriJanuary 26, 2012 at 1:05 AM

      @Somber
      Yeah, but in your original plan Glory died in the medical center, Rampage is a complete monster, and P-21 and Blackjack are boning by now. I like where we are better than where you originally planned on going.
      This is the great thing about character driven stories; even that author doesn't know everything that's going to happen until it does. Just build a setting, toss in a bundle of interesting characters, and see what happens. Occasionally cursing extensively and trying to nudge things back towards your plan if necessary.

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    19. linedotJanuary 26, 2012 at 1:56 AM

      Oh boy, I suck at rhyming, writing songs or English in general, since it's my third language, but I wrote a little something - should go with some fast musik with tuplets and stuff... idk"^^:

      Blackjack - you can't be dead - I know for sure,
      Cause else the Hoof stays bad - like a Hellhound-ridden sewer.
      Blackjack - don't you understand - the world needs your crazy antics.
      So - please come back again and shoot some brainless bandits.
      Blackjack - look over here - I got your favorite whiskey.
      Take it and get drunk again and do something stupid and risky.
      Blackjack - can't let you go - there's too much unfinished business.
      Just wake up and live again - death is just a sickness.


      I know you can't shrug it off like a fever
      I know that no one lives forever
      But now your heart must go "Thump! Thump!" again!
      I know you're broken beyond limit
      I know the Reaper was about to win it
      But now your heart must go "Thump! Thump!" again!


      Blackjack - you'll walk again - Somepony's gonna fix your body.
      And you'll get your eyesight back - just in time to get dirty and muddy.
      Blackjack - think of your friends - they need, respect and love you.
      Wake up for them and bust a joke - say something creepy if you have to.
      Blackjack - there's stuff to do - can't deal with it in a coffin.
      But if you're alive again - it's as easy as eating a muffin
      Blackjack - you are alive - no need to still pretend now
      Death can be avoided - and - you're the one to show how


      I know you can't shrug it off like a fever
      I know that no one lives forever
      But now your heart must go "Thump! Thump!" again!
      I know you're broken beyond limit
      I know the Reaper was about to win it
      But now your heart must go "Thump! Thump!" again!

      Wake up and do better!
      Cause no one will shatter
      Your will to be stronger,
      To hold out some longer.
      You are the one mare
      That is able to bear
      Even life's sourest lemons
      The biggest of cannons.
      So wake up and make your heart go..

      THUMP! THUMP!

      make your heart go...

      THUMP! THUMP!

      Make your heart go "Thump! Thump!" again!

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    20. ScygnusJanuary 26, 2012 at 2:01 AM

      @Random Blank

      *now wants someone to draw Blackjack in Spawn gear*

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    21. Cali-NipponiaJanuary 26, 2012 at 6:18 AM

      @Somber Good luck; I have every confidence that your eventual decision will be good, even if you don't think it is, or it isn't the way you originally anticipated. I think it's a sign of the maturity of your talent when you have the clarity to respond to the personality of your characters rather than try to railroad them into a predetermined outcome.

      Don't worry about the time factor. Now, of all times, there is zero chance we'll run out of things to speculate on during the wait.


      Speaking of speculation, I had a bit to indulge in.

      I'm not a believer in predestination, but I enjoy it in fiction, and Somber's use of it so far has been just stellar.

      So as far as mystical bits go, there are points to ponder which might pertain to our present predicament. The main one I am thinking of is chapter 25, when she was talking to Big Daddy, he says of her:

      “Blood of the innocent. Blood of the guilty. Fresh blood. Cold blood. Old blood. You’re standing in a river of the stuff. It’s flowing through you. Gives you strength. It’s also tearing you away and drowning you. And for all the blood that’s soaking you through and through... it’s nothing compared to all the bloodshed you’re going to prevent.” He sighed and shrugged, “I also see stars above you... stars beneath you... stars within you. You’re made of stars. Bloody stars.”

      Keep in mind, at this point Blackjack has already cleansed stable 99. Since this point, has she prevented an amount of death that would make 99 and all prior deaths pale in comparison? My recall of the story isn't as good as some of the others on the forum, so I'm not positive, but I can't think of anything bigger than preventing Stable 99 from going raider.

      Granted, she's done an awful lot of good, so there are arguable possibilities. Sinking the Celestia likely was a net positive. If her actions definitely kept EC-1101 out of Sanguine's hooves and averted the vision-future we saw, that would qualify, but that seems rather speculative and indirect. Not sure what else (or combinations of what else) would qualify.

      Thoughts?

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    22. DerpmindJanuary 26, 2012 at 6:32 AM

      @Sindri
      Of course! This is what you do Somber: When BJ meets the Cuthulu star equivalent, instead of having them fight, have them become friends!

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    23. Thomas P.January 26, 2012 at 6:44 AM

      Two things relevant to us:

      http://shytalon.deviantart.com/#/d4nn4rj

      And me, most days:

      http://mls-classics.tumblr.com/post/16512999948/weird-mood-tonight-tired-edge-of-sick-kind-of

      Somber: After 33? I trust you to write just about anything and it to turn out well.

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    24. Random BlankJanuary 26, 2012 at 7:47 AM

      @Cali-Nipponia

      My headcanon of karma mechanics:

      Karma comes when the consequences come (or are averted). Things that are immediate small evil with long-term potential for good will bring you immediate bad karma, and good karma when the good happens. Sinking Celestia would prevent countless deaths over upcoming days when the bombardment would happen, and so good things will happen then. But killing the steel ranger novices cashes in quickly, now. Killing ponies of 99 was bad, but the consequences - ponies traveling safely, not getting killed - will keep slowly cashing in over years to come.

      On a different note, did anyone think of a "Stable number allocation site?" There are roughly 150 stables max, and good 20 fanfics if not more. It would be wise if there was one central thread/site/location where you could pick an unused number and say "I'll use it in my fic" and whoever wants another, will know "this one has been used" and their fic will not conflict with yours.

      [Stable 60 allocated by Ask Red Eye, ransacked, converted into slaver camp, later a settlement inhabited by former slaves and then Red Eye's forces outpost.]

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    25. MaklakJanuary 26, 2012 at 8:01 AM

      @ Random Blank
      Known stables

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    26. Nightmare LunaJanuary 26, 2012 at 9:06 AM

      Just a quick update. I'm currently working on a new set of figures like I did for the original story, this time for PH.

      So far I've gotten P-21, Scotch Tape, Rampage and Lacunae to the pre-baking stage. So can still be changed. So please if you feel like it can you leave some feedback.

      All the figures can be found here:
      http://mcmesser.deviantart.com/gallery/34917657

      Thanks.

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    27. UnknownJanuary 26, 2012 at 9:17 AM

      I miss Queen Whiskey...

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    28. AnonymousJanuary 26, 2012 at 9:26 AM

      @Somber

      Take your time and fix it. We can wait.

      Now what really sucks is when you're halfway through DMing your first DND campaign and you realize that not only have your players broken the plot beyond repair by murdering your main villain while he was taking a bath, but you accidentally left massively glaring plot holes open anyway...

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    29. AnonymousJanuary 26, 2012 at 9:42 AM

      @Cali-Nipponia
      Kinda makes me wonder again about the perks "Thought You Died" and "Just Lucky I'm Alive"...

      ReplyDelete
    30. KimJanuary 26, 2012 at 10:33 AM

      @Bronode Hum, I just got "heat" explained to me as "strong desire to mate/produce offspring". But likely varies from species to species. Since well, most females seem to pace around and pick the best suited partner, and others just sorta "LINE UP BOYS!" xD

      And ah, about my knowledge being flawed: Much likely, but you are not thinking of a detail here: They are sentient. That is a huge detail right there. Since if you go by the "heat" standard, males should be unable to rape here. As the females cannot produce the pheromones required to get the males attracted. So we can just conclude that they likely have some odd, "seasons/heat" based "productivity" cycle. Since Velvet and Calamity are doing it, and I guess Velvet can have a "block the seed" spell, but you know. It would just make more sense if they bucked when she was in her infertile state. That, or mares can decide by raw mindpower if they want to ovulate... I dunno. To make a completely awkward comparison: Take me and a strictly religious female within (insert "only have sex for reproductive purpose" religion) If "we" both (hypothetically) had a partner, if I wanted some sex, I'd likely do something like "Oi, you, here, on your knees." (if in a chair/couch xD) while the religious would shun away and suppress the needs since "it should only be done to reproduce or it's a sin. (being very stereotypical here for the sake of it) so a animal in the wild would not go for it as it would be a "waste of energy" as it doesn't give anything. If you are sentient, then yes, we are wasting organic material and DNA things, do we care? No, since it feels good. That is something you must account for. And we know they share quite a few traits with humans. Faust only stated they reproduce the "normal mammal" way. So the rest would be up too use and logic to deduct.

      And I have no idea if anything I just said made sense. xD I blacked out and woke up an hour later by a phonecall by a female friend telling me she had an erection and wanted to know how to do to check if one was a squirter, and if it would taste decent/be edible... I probably am rambling indecent stuff right now... I promise I will sleep today ^^'
      Ugh, why did I have to do all the paperwork for the funeral? Lousy parents never learning how to use the computer *grumbles*

      Regarding Flammie: Omigosh! I totally loved that game. (think it was the second or third) Found it quite amusing thou that as the child or female character could ogle at the resting female without her bothering to do something about it xP

      @OAC: (BJ being dead) To quote my eleti delver, Jack Dairipa (sentient skeletons) "I am not dead, I am merely living impaired my good sir." (which later just became "I ain't dead, I'm living impaired!"

      @Nuhvok: I live in Sweden, so... xP Will send email thou.
      And just to bitch about my pet peeve: It's vulva, not vagina. That is the inner tubing between the opening and the cervix xD So, can't do much scissoring with those... unless you suffer from whatever it's called or take a hit to your stomach that dislodges your womb from it's position, that can cause it to "fall out" through the vagina, then I might be able to scissor with it, depending how much of it that "went outside" and... wait, what the hell am I writing? xD Like there's not enough nightmare fuel in this thread already xD And I'm quite sure I would be to busy shrieking in pain/fear to even get the idea of doing anything like that.

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    31. KimJanuary 26, 2012 at 10:44 AM

      Gah, totally missed that there was another page xD

      @Somber: Think nothing of it, I once spend hours trying to do this thing, or make it work. Then after this tower of duct tape, I realised: Wait... I just have to chance one thing in that scene... ok, lets ret-con that. And I'd want to express how PH's made me feel (well, generally the last chapter, if we exclude the rape scene) but then decided against it, since I am very sure the comparison would just be inappropriate, and possibly make you feel bad, and that wouldn't be the intent of it.

      @Silent: There is also some "I used to be like that, but not any more" or something like that as a perk too. Since there was 3 of them.

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    32. TakonJanuary 26, 2012 at 10:53 AM

      FOr the ending scene of Black, look up the song Another Version of the truth by NIN. Start the song at 1:53 and read following the scene with Rampage.

      ;_;

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    33. TakonJanuary 26, 2012 at 10:53 AM

      @Takon

      That was a bit unclear. Read from where BJ wakes up and is carried out into the sun.

      ReplyDelete
    34. O. HindsJanuary 26, 2012 at 11:10 AM

      Good news: we've got the plotting difficulty sorted out. We might have to add/change a few lines in 33, but things now seem to be proceeding again.

      ReplyDelete
    35. Random BlankJanuary 26, 2012 at 11:37 AM

      O.Hinds: Post a diff in the comments. No way in hell I'm reading the whole thing again.

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    36. SindriJanuary 26, 2012 at 11:43 AM

      @Derpmind
      After all, it's probably not really a monster, just something forced into doing monstrous things because of its tragic backstory. :P
      Wait. Crap. Sekashi said that the ancient zebra mages "tainted the heart of a star." The Eater of Souls wasn't evil at all until just before it was pulled down to destroy their city. Blackjack's totally going to befriend it. >_<


      @Kim
      Your posts are always the most fascinating blend of insightful and amusing commentary, incomprehensible sleep-deprived rambling, well constructed logical arguments, and 'Dear sweet Luna what the fuck did I just read?!?' If I were a psychologist I'd probably want to study you for years; as is I will continue to value the majority of your contributions and apply copious quantities of brain bleach to the rest.

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    37. ValikJanuary 26, 2012 at 11:53 AM

      @Kim

      >>"I used to be like that, but not any more"

      ...but then I took an arrow in the knee.

      Sorry. Had to be done.

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    38. MaklakJanuary 26, 2012 at 11:57 AM

      I find Kim's comments to be educational while very creepy.

      ReplyDelete
    39. Random BlankJanuary 26, 2012 at 12:07 PM

      @Kim Heat in equines is coinciding ovulation cycle with fertile days. The mare's urine gets milky-opaque, strong pheromones are emitted, the mare gets quite receptive sexually, nervous and aggressive. She will actively, sometimes aggressively solicit sex. Heat occurs periodically during spring (roughly march-june) occurring for roughly a week in a cycle of 21 days (meaning 1/3 of the time on the average) plus one, single estrus roughly near end of august, start of september, and independently one about 8 days after giving birth, time of year irrelevant. This is for horses living in natural light. Mares living in stables that keep light until late evening hours are in the "7 out of 21" cycle all year long.

      Stallions are willing to mate all the time given even a mild stimulation - say, sight of female human owner bending over in front of one is sufficient (and very dangerous, a common problem/mistake and cause of accidental trampling). Still, scent of mare in heat will arouse them and make to overcome serious obstacles to get to mate.

      So in both cases it's never "don't want sex". It's between "Sex - allright, fun." and "SEX SEX SEX WANT!". Only pregnant mares and young fillies are a "definite no-no" and old mares past fertility are "Uninterested, but if you insist, all right..."

      And then there's the special case: Stallion taking over the alpha position in a herd. The old stallion is driven away, sometimes (rarely) even killed. The new stallion breeds all adult the mares in the herd, quite violently, regardless of their pregnancy or estrus (this considering mares are pregnant 90% of the time...) . The result is all the pregnant mares have their pregnancies aborted (unborn foals of previous stallion killed) and soon they are knocked into the post-birth (post-stillbirth) estrus - during which the new stallion impregnates them all.

      So, considering FoE universe, ponies being sentient and all, it would match quite well. A mare in her estrus cycle would definitely get P-21's hormones ticking. A mare can rape a shy, unwilling stallion, aggressively too. A dominant raider stallion will go on raping rampage...


      ...don't ask me where I know all this from.

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    40. Random BlankJanuary 26, 2012 at 12:16 PM

      err, what I wrote is not quite right. It's not that there's never "don't want sex" and always at least "sex-okay". It's a matter of mood, personal likes/dislikes, friendships and antipathies, and so on. A mare can be just as uninterested as any girl, may yield to charms of a stallion who is insistent and gentle and generally nice, or... may be just a slut, everytime, with everypony, this happens. Sexual life of equines outside of estrus cycle and pregnancy bears a lot of parallels with humans.

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    41. BronodeJanuary 26, 2012 at 12:28 PM

      Kim and Random.

      It's entirely my own fault for getting embroiled in this discussion, but still.

      Pinkamena explains my feelings on this better than I can.

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    42. MaklakJanuary 26, 2012 at 12:39 PM

      I'm watching 'Freeman's mind' and it rocks. It is also a treasure trove of quotes to put in a neutral or evil run of FoE. Examples:

      "Normally following the trail of bodies covered in blood is a sign, you're going the wrong way."

      " Damn it, its the same story every time. You give people the benefit of doubt, and they try to kill you. That's what I get for trying to be nice."

      "It was nice of him to die, so I can have his ammo, but I don't know if it was worth it. Now I'm covered in blood."

      "Yes, vomit some blood on me, because the previous layer was getting dry."

      "Maybe I should become a burglar after this. I'm getting the hang of breaking and entering, and I like stealing stuff."

      " A scientist's job is to try and make sense of the world around her, but this whole building is crazy!"

      "I don't want to die. I want other ponies to die for me. So you go in first."

      "I'm on your side, you bucking idiots! How many of you do I have to kill for you to understand this?"

      ReplyDelete
    43. DerpmindJanuary 26, 2012 at 12:44 PM

      @Random Blank
      Ok, so that's wild horses. What about wild ponies?
      I agree with you Bronode, but don't forget that some species of apes do really disgusting stuff too.

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    44. KimJanuary 26, 2012 at 12:53 PM

      @Sindri (Regarding reply to Derp) Why does it feel like BJ would first try to befriend Cthulu or find out his background? xD

      *Ahem* Thanks, I guess... xP Makes me a bit happier to know I might be more coherent and... read-able then I think I am heh. Ah, only 4 more hours till I can crawl to bed, assuming my vulva won't pull anything... it tends to be a cunt (*rimshot*) at times I really don't need it. And that is actually a real thing. Most common in sheep. The scary part? It's inherited. Almout all of them die when giving birth, and if it's a male child, it will possibly spread "contaminated genes". It can happen to humans as well, but it's rarely ever fatal as we can sorta, push the womb and vagina back in. Cuz, you know, we have hands that are handy for that. Althou it should be done professionally, but you know, unless giving birth out in the woods alone, that shouldn't be a problem.

      @Valik: Aha! But how do you know I didn't deliberately and delicately planned it so th- ah, screw it. To tired to make witty remarks. xP

      @Malak: That sums me up quite well heh...

      @Random: *Adjusts her monocle* Fair point, and I do not care how you acquired this information just as much as you don't care, or possibly at least don't want to know what I'd really want too do with a male right now. (no worries, it's nothing morbid, overly disturbing or gross. Just generally odd, or well, I guess that depends on the person. But I will refrain from mention it, since I always talk about sex more then enough, and there is just such things as TMI xD I don't want to go and say to much inappropriate shit or fantasies in respect to those that don't want to hear) But it was quite interesting to read. Althou I can just safely say that MLP ponies are a odd mix of equine and human. Since as said, otherwise they wouldn't meet any non-pregnant mares, at all. got a bit surprised that equines were anatomically made to miscarriage. If a new stallion entered. One of my favourite female anatomies are some duck, they got a anti-rape vagina. The males have penises that are ~150 % of their entire body size or something stupid like that, and the females are very hung (vagina depth) and their entire vagina has the design that it can twist itself into a spiral, in any direction. So if a male tried to enter, she just "screws" him over *rimshot* by twisting the vagina so he can't enter as the passage is too tight. And regarding P-21: Actually quite sure he wouldn't get aroused. Since if I recall, (if he now is 100 % gay, and not bi) homosexual animals do not respond to the "regular" pheromones. Like humans, unless I am horribly wrong. But if I recall right, we are appealed to pheromones as well, as our sweat carries testosterone (if male), and this "scent" will attract partners, the more T you got, the more appealing you are. Or sumit. And the males have to "run out of juice" sometime, even if they now can fuck a whole herd at once, what else would the point of gang-bang be? Don't try to ruin my evil, psychotic desires here xD Sure, they could still be raped, but if they never got sore, then where would the... I dunno be?

      And just random: Gawd fucking dammit! This day has been stressful up the cervix. Had to do around 3-5 things at the same time constantly the whole day, and non-stop through the whole freaking time (from ~9 to 20) people have called about as many time as I've had tasks to do. I hate doing it, but those endorphins does seem tempting right now... perhaps if I can't find any chocolate... oh pet Gecko, look away, don't see your owner like this xD (and just random: What is it with their blank stares and eyeball licking that is so fascinating?) Ah well, 3 hours left. And I'm still embarrassed for what I accidentally did yesterday. I can hint and say it's the title of a silly song heh. (and 99 % of the time a "guy thing")

      ReplyDelete
    45. RoboRedJanuary 26, 2012 at 1:51 PM

      @Takon

      There we go. That's it right there. THAT'S what I've been looking for.

      Thank you very much, Takon.


      @Everyone else

      Anyone up for a serious tear-jerker? Listen to this, and imagine it as Glory singing.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkweE2zgrS8

      You're welcome. ;_;

      ReplyDelete
    46. AnonymousJanuary 26, 2012 at 1:51 PM

      @Kim
      "Ain't Like That Now". I deliberately didn't mention it, because while I'm not sure what BJ's karma total is, I'm sure it's not negative.

      @Random Blank
      SECONDED.

      ReplyDelete
    47. theBSDudeJanuary 26, 2012 at 2:18 PM

      Well, in New Vegas, saving Benny is a messianic action, and BJ's done that... what? Five times? At least?

      ReplyDelete
    48. KippershyJanuary 26, 2012 at 2:29 PM

      @RoboRed

      You... you monster.
      I have something unmanly in my eyes
      please, just a minute.

      ReplyDelete
    49. BronodeJanuary 26, 2012 at 2:32 PM

      Is that enough to work off the MASSIVE bad karma she got from being a part of the 99 murder-rape machine? If we take that into account, her karma's neutral at best.

      ReplyDelete
    50. Random BlankJanuary 26, 2012 at 2:42 PM

      @Derpmind
      Applies fully for przewalski's horses. I don't think wild Hucul horses (carpathian ponies) and Tarpans ever underwent this kind of scientific scrutinity before being fully domesticated and going extinct respectively. AFAIK no other pony species live in the wild.

      ReplyDelete
    51. Overlong Analysis CobaltJanuary 26, 2012 at 2:46 PM

      Y'know, sometimes you guys can confuse me or get on my nerves (just a little and only rarely), but you're all awesome and you should feel awesome. :)

      @Kim
      ... I was confused, and then, abruptly and without warning, I wasn't anymore. Or at least I don't think I am. Anyway, you've got my sympathy. Do try to give yourself a break to get some sleep and nourishment, though, I like your rambling but sleep is not something you can operate without, not for long. (Personally, I start hallucinating when I get sleep deprived, which is hilarious but, well, probably bad)

      Regarding equine mating, I can only say that I have no idea about any of it and that what you guys are talking about is interesting.

      @Takon/RoboRed
      Ah, that album was my first foray into modern music - the first album I ever listened to on my own, really. It's got a special place in my heart.

      I hear younger Rampage. Anyone else?

      @O. Hinds
      Glad to hear you've got a plan worked out! :)

      ReplyDelete
    52. KippershyJanuary 26, 2012 at 2:47 PM

      @Bronode
      Tomorrow, or maybe tonight, I'll prove you wrong.

      I'll make a list of everything she's done, and we'll see.

      ReplyDelete
    53. KippershyJanuary 26, 2012 at 2:49 PM

      Personally I see her as moderate-good karma.

      nothing wasteland saviour like lil'pip, but BJ was never meant for that role. ever.

      ReplyDelete
    54. ketchup504January 26, 2012 at 3:27 PM

      Her karma in my opinion when she left Stable 99 would have been a low-neutral. She only followed her Stable's customs and had not really ever been told that it was wrong.
      But by the (surmised) end of her physical life, she must have been of at least Good disposition. After all, she let her assailants leave after the incident on the Seahorse.
      When she destroyed most of Stable 99's population, I would consider it a good choice, because they were going to be evil, and it could even be considered a mercy killing.

      ReplyDelete
    55. AnonymousJanuary 26, 2012 at 3:35 PM

      @Bronode
      I don't like the idea of building up karma based on where she grew up. Until the start of the story, she never had a choice of whether to participate. "Don't think about it", you know? She changed her own behavior and tried to change the Stable, too, as soon as she really understood what she was doing. The mistakes she's made, like killing U-20, sure. But just for living in 99? No.

      @Random Blank
      I believe Derpmind was referring to wild/prehistoric (My Little) Ponies, not small horse breeds from Earth. At least, that's how I read it.


      So, question for discussion. Way back in Ch. 12, right after listening to DJ Pon3's interview with "Nicked Jewels" and some other ponies from the museum, BJ stumbled across a bunch of bounty hunters that had been torn open before they could take a shot at her. "Something had just done me a favor, and I didn't like it. I didn't like it at all." Was that Rampage, do you suppose, or one of the Zodiacs, or something else entirely?

      By the way, those asking about males and names -- Ch. 15, recording "BJ#3". They call each other "U-20" and "P-17" in private.

      ReplyDelete
    56. BronodeJanuary 26, 2012 at 3:57 PM

      And I don't like the idea of her getting off scot free just because we hadn't started the game yet.

      Just because you're sorry for what you've done doesn't instantly cleanse the stain of your crimes from your soul. When she got out of 99, I would put money on her karma registering as "very evil". She's done a lot to make up for that in the mean time though. Maybe enough to balance everything out. Maybe.

      And she did have a choice in 99. She could have done the decent thing and killed herself or the Overmare rather than be a part of the murder-rape factory like those mares we don't talk about did. But she didn't. She recognised from an early age it was fucked up but she swallowed those thoughts so she could function and got a mountain of negative karma for her trouble.

      ReplyDelete
    57. BronodeJanuary 26, 2012 at 4:00 PM

      Buggering... link didn't work.

      ReplyDelete
    58. KippershyJanuary 26, 2012 at 4:53 PM

      So, I know nothing can top what Robored suggested.

      but back when I made the suggestion of Hurt by Johnny Cash, I also made this suggestion for the relationship between BJ & Glory:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU8JzScqU5A

      Adieu by Enter Shikari.

      I know the tune of it doesn't fit the mood, but the lyrics do. very very much so.

      "And I long for you to appear
      After losing your way across star riddled skies
      To carry you home
      [x2]

      I cherish my loss
      A gentle reminder, that life is unkind
      At the best of times

      And I long for you to appear
      After losing your way across star riddled skies
      To carry you home

      I cherish my loss
      A gentle reminder, that life is unkind
      At the best of times

      (Brace your self, cause I think I'm coming for you. Look up into the sky)

      Home could be anywhere, when I am holding you..."

      ReplyDelete
    59. Nuhvok01January 26, 2012 at 5:20 PM

      Bronode and Kim, you guys make me feel better when I post something I felt award writing. It's comforting to know I am now the only one who thinks fucking weird things.

      @Kim
      Is there a Papa Johns/Pizza Hut franchise out there? Some way for me to buy you a meal through the interwebs. Also correction: I think Pip will use her magic vulva to scissor the life back into Blackjack.

      What voice do you guys read character dialogue in? With the exception of P-21, all the characters in PH sound like the Mane6 to me because I can't create so many distinct voices in my head.

      ReplyDelete
    60. SindriJanuary 26, 2012 at 5:42 PM

      @silentcarto
      Yes, I believe that was Rampage. She had been ordered by Big Daddy to observe and recover Blackjack after Gorgon's death, and along the way dealt with a bundle of Gangers and bounty hunters, culminating with dismantling Leo's group and saving BJ and Glory's lives.

      Also, given that the targets in question were torn apart with more strength than a pony could muster, and none of them were looted, I'm not sure of who else it could have been.


      RE: morality (karma in Fallout terms)
      I agree that she began her journey with at least bad karma. Probably not very evil, since she neither acted nor was treated as a complete monster during the time we've been watching, but definitely south of neutral. She started gaining karma when she saved P-21 from being beaten to death by Daisy, and another boost when she took EC-1101 and basically sacrificed herself to draw Deus and most of his army away from her friends, family, enemies, etc. Since then she's been steadily doing better, atoning for the sins of her past, and saving ponies. By the time she lets her assailants go in this last chapter, she's significantly beyond the conventional maximum. Not to disparage our wasteland messiah, but I very much doubt that even Littlepip would be that strong.

      Meanwhile her actual Karma, the sum of all the good she's gone and all the mistakes she's made? That's harder. Like Watcher said, you spend your whole life trying to do better and make up for it, trying to do enough good to make up for your evil, knowing the whole time that it's probably impossible. But now, after Blackjack spent her whole life... I think she's managed. I think she's zeroed out on that scale and from here, if she returns, she can stop atoning and start building.


      @RoboRed
      ...sorry, not feeling anything. Nothing from OAC's song or Kippershy's either. It's difficult to instill emotions in me using art, which is part of why I value Somber's work so much.

      ReplyDelete
    61. BronodeJanuary 26, 2012 at 5:58 PM

      I don't mean to, Nuhvok(I wanna call you Tuvok). I really don't, I'm not actually this weird, I swear!

      liarjack.gif

      As I've said a few times, I've somewhat latched onto the Soul Reaver voice cast and any time I think The Eater of Souls/Cyberdaemon is speaking, I hear the late, great Tony Jay. Dealer I hear as a very gravelly Rene Auberjonois, Michael Bell I've assigned to P-21. I think I'm settling into Simon Templeman as Goldenblood. I don't really have solid voices for the mares yet, though I think I'm kinda settling on Jen Taylor for Blackjack.

      Stronghoof is, of course, BRIAN BLESSED.

      ReplyDelete
    62. swickedJanuary 26, 2012 at 6:15 PM

      This comment has been removed by the author.

      ReplyDelete
    63. KippershyJanuary 26, 2012 at 6:25 PM

      Test one, test two.

      ReplyDelete
    64. KippershyJanuary 26, 2012 at 6:27 PM

      @Kippershy

      Sorry about that. Just wanted to see if my icon would come up.. just realised how to get an icon for myself.
      [never really bothered to look into it before]

      ReplyDelete
    65. O. HindsJanuary 26, 2012 at 6:56 PM

      @Kippershy
      An interesting idea. Let's see if this works...

      ReplyDelete
    66. O. HindsJanuary 26, 2012 at 6:59 PM

      @O. Hinds
      Profile picture operational. I wonder what Bronode will say...

      ReplyDelete
    67. BronodeJanuary 26, 2012 at 7:02 PM

      Got the email first, Hinds, so I haven't actually seen it yet, but since you wonder what my reaction will be, I'm guessing it's something relating to those filthy stripes.

      ReplyDelete
    68. BronodeJanuary 26, 2012 at 7:04 PM

      Eeyup.

      Not a bad looking creation, actually. As far as they go.

      ReplyDelete
    69. WintersTJanuary 26, 2012 at 9:06 PM

      I love how the commenting has slowed down as we all anxiously await Somber's next chapter and the reveal of the direction the story is taking

      ReplyDelete
    70. MaklakJanuary 26, 2012 at 9:35 PM

      Just a random thought: I think Luna stomped project Redoubt along with some others, and that is at least part of why Blue Blood was cheated.

      Picture doesn't work. Oh well, whatever.

      ReplyDelete
    71. Admiral Stoic "Crusader" RumJanuary 26, 2012 at 10:01 PM

      @Kim

      Regarding P21's homosexual inability to get aroused from females.

      As I recall, he has been Psychologically conditioned by the Medical section of Stable 99 to be "ready to go" whenever a female stimulates him in the slightest. A good point of this is when he is disarming the bombs and traps in the tunnels to the Sand Dog's home. You see, He almost set off a trap that he missed and Blackjack telekinetically grabbed the first thing of his that she could, as it turned out it was his junk, and he was shaken. Turns out the first this that popped into his mind was "I hope she likes it." and he was ready to go.

      He was a sex slave, literally trained his entire life to bring pleasure to mares no matter what his feelings on the issue are.

      @Random Blank

      Okay there is only one breed of truely wild horses in the world. The rest of horses that are undomesticated other than that one "breed" are considered feral. Feral horses are horses that are born domesticated and then allowed to go free, escape or some other thing and then their descendants are also considered feral. The only way to be wild is if the ancestors were never domesticated.

      Pregnancy: Horses do not have to be in Estrus to become pregnant.

      @Kippershy

      OH FOR THE LOVE OF CELESTIA! I've changed my image about four times, and you want to actually put one up for the first time and weren't sure on how to do it!? man, I would have been happy to help you out, I might have included images too...

      ReplyDelete
    72. SomberJanuary 26, 2012 at 10:20 PM

      Small update. 15 pages in. Might be busy saturday so we may be brushing sunday...

      ReplyDelete
    73. Admiral Stoic "Crusader" RumJanuary 26, 2012 at 10:23 PM

      Somber is a beast... I love you man! I just wanted you to know that. Not that I'd take a bullet for you, but I've got this kind of, affection for you... nothing sexual.

      ReplyDelete
    74. King KasaiJanuary 26, 2012 at 11:28 PM

      What was the official social experiment in stable 99? IIRC the breeding queue was the overmares doing.

      ReplyDelete
    75. theBSDudeJanuary 26, 2012 at 11:36 PM

      @KingK

      Heredity occupations and strict population control.

      ReplyDelete
    76. Admiral Stoic "Crusader" RumJanuary 26, 2012 at 11:38 PM

      @King Kasai The official social experiment was actually.... "you know what? I don't care, just do whatever you want. You have enough contraceptives to last about 200 years and the recyclers can support about 500 ponies so keep the population at 500 maximum." That is what I recall.... so basically scoots left it in the hooves of the overmare on what to do. this was interpreted into the system put into place and observed by Blackjack and the reader. Basically it was a totalitarian dictatorship. Ruled by the overmare and she did what she saw fit

      ReplyDelete
    77. Admiral Stoic "Crusader" RumJanuary 26, 2012 at 11:50 PM

      where the Sorrel Hells is everypony? Usually we've argued the orbit of the Equestrian moon by now...

      ReplyDelete
    78. Overlong Analysis CobaltJanuary 27, 2012 at 12:15 AM

      @Stoic
      I just don't have anything to talk about yet! I mean... it almost seems pointless to talk about most of the usual conspiracy theories at this point, because all of them may well change massively when 34 drops. That's one of the reasons I'm so excited for it: no matter what happens in it (well... almost no matter what, I mean if everyone just sits around for the whole chapter crying [which'd be understandable, I mean that's what we did in this comments section, more or less] then we probably won't learn much) we're gonna get a ton of new material and evidence and probably some awesome character development, so... Yeah! Plus, classes, working more on my own writing (nothing to show yet), and making a Pathfinder campaign (still need a proper map ffffffff-).

      ReplyDelete
    79. MechJanuary 27, 2012 at 12:24 AM

      Hmm..Here's a topic. What do you guys imagine the Zebra homeland to be like in this postapocalyptic era?

      ReplyDelete
    80. TheLastDefenderJanuary 27, 2012 at 12:47 AM

      @Mech
      Sea zebra ghouls with sunken cities and what not. Only because I don't remember hearing anything about them but burning islands plunging into boiling oceans. Have we seen any Zebra ghouls for that matter? I can't remember.

      ReplyDelete
    81. Admiral Stoic "Crusader" RumJanuary 27, 2012 at 12:49 AM

      Blown up

      ReplyDelete
    82. swickedJanuary 27, 2012 at 1:01 AM

      @Mech

      If they survived at all (we're not led to believe anything short of a holocaust occurred across every place they were known to live) I'd think they survived well. The zebra seemed to have a greater sense of community (no nobility or, at least, none that aren't appointed; no pegasi fleeing to the clouds; no "earth pony way" elitism) so, instead of stables being made by a single company who's focus was a social engineering project, I'd imagine only a few massive underground stables, perhaps even featuring some sort of aboveground fortress. After the ordeal with the falling stars I wouldn't be surprised if they already had a sort of stable system worked out prior to the war as a way of escaping from the sky in case it ever attacked them again, especially after Luna started prowling it. They could have then just beefed up those defenses instead of having to build entirely new ones.

      Plus: they fired their bombs first. They would have taken shelter ahead of time.

      ReplyDelete
    83. Overlong Analysis CobaltJanuary 27, 2012 at 1:01 AM

      @TheLastDefender I reckon that the Equestrian megaspells must've been pretty terrifying when they hit. I mean, if the Hoof's any indication then the magic our little ponies were working with was some decidedly scary stuff. Can't recall any zebra ghouls, personally, but since ponies did use balefire weaponry, it seems like there might be some around. Perhaps zebra anatomy resists ghoulification, or perhaps the non-ghoul zebras purged the ghoul ones.

      ReplyDelete
    84. nuub3dJanuary 27, 2012 at 1:06 AM

      Zebra Zombies were encountered in the minI vault In
      Manehatten - which Pinkie Pie tried to stomp....

      Also i imagin zebraland like the everyfree only 2-5 times deadlier... Burning tentacles Out of the ground .... a bit like Flood-Infested Terrain.....

      ReplyDelete
    85. swickedJanuary 27, 2012 at 1:06 AM

      @TheLastDefender

      Blackjack came across some company that had built its own stable underneath its facility, because they were the zebra traitors that snuck the bomb into Manehattan. Blackjack opened the stable and it was full of ghoul zebras and ponies, IIRC, since their stable was nothing compared to a Stabletech one.

      ReplyDelete
    86. Admiral Stoic "Crusader" RumJanuary 27, 2012 at 1:07 AM

      Celestia One, a megaspell that uses the power of the sun. Can be defeated by a cloudy day. DO you really think they used missiles at all? I doubt it... Then about Ghouls, well zebra ghouls are there in the Lucky whatever building where littlepip encounters the centurion armor that she gives velvet remedy....

      and you ahve to remember the Zebra canterlot ghouls too...

      ReplyDelete
    87. swickedJanuary 27, 2012 at 1:13 AM

      @nuub3d

      Everfree's like that because of starmetal and taint.
      The zebra lands only got radiation and celestia one (as far as we know).

      Though the celestia one only got to work for how long again? It was very short, since the pegasi immediately clouded up the sky.

      I'd imagine something more like applejack's orchard. A sparse covering of dead, twisted, radioactive trees. Radroaches, phoenixes, efreet, manticore, maybe a hydra or two and anything that could burrow or live underground or in the water. The wasteland would be more inhabited, where it still existed.

      ReplyDelete
    88. TheLastDefenderJanuary 27, 2012 at 1:13 AM

      @Overlong Analysis Cobalt
      Actually now that I think about it we may have seen zebra ghouls. assuming that the zebra ghouls lost all there fur (I'm pretty sure Ditzy lost all her feathers so it's possible) And the way ponies tend to treat zebras who would blame them for not correcting anyone who called them a pony?

      ReplyDelete
    89. Admiral Stoic "Crusader" RumJanuary 27, 2012 at 1:18 AM

      What the Hoof is IIRC... you have a bad habit of using acronyms all to often and no frame of reference on occasion

      ReplyDelete
    90. TheLastDefenderJanuary 27, 2012 at 1:18 AM

      Oops looks like I made a mistake about zebra ghouls and didn't see the comments before I posted again (I don't leave this page open I just wait for the emails)

      ReplyDelete
    91. nuub3dJanuary 27, 2012 at 1:22 AM

      Remember that the Zebraland gets Hit from Asteroids, which contain the starmetal, more often - at least it seems that Way.... So there would be more corruption from starmetal aswell. Also wie dont know what Kind of megaspell got used against them but i imagin very taintlasting stuff so much that the Earth itself started to mutat. Someone open for a tiberium-like Virus which is corrupting and destroying everything corrupting, mutating and deforming....

      ReplyDelete
    92. Random BlankJanuary 27, 2012 at 1:22 AM

      The experimental part was No garden at all, only recycling.
      I don't think all of Stable-tec experiments were social in nature.

      ReplyDelete
    93. RainbowYoshiJanuary 27, 2012 at 1:25 AM

      @ Stoic

      Here you go: http://www.gaarde.org/acronyms/?lookup=I


      IIRC means "If I Recall/Remember Correctly".

      ReplyDelete
    94. TheLastDefenderJanuary 27, 2012 at 1:25 AM

      @swicked
      Did they have the capability of building vaults in the zebra homeland? They were lacking magical gems, which as far as I can tell are required to make things like water talismans. Which would be necessary for long term vault survival.

      ReplyDelete
    95. TheLastDefenderJanuary 27, 2012 at 1:26 AM

      @TheLastDefender
      Stable*

      ReplyDelete
    96. Random BlankJanuary 27, 2012 at 1:32 AM

      @Mech

      I imagine it as "Everfree Forest is such a nice, safe place."

      The lands were very wild. The zebras desperately needed crystals from Equestria for weapons/defenses against monsters that roamed their forests, the whole coal hold-up was due to Equestria's embargo on crystals.

      Now considering gentle, mild Equestria becoming the horrible wastelands, Everfree - scary but not so bad - turning into a deathtrap, just think what happened to the wild lands of Zebras, and how their native monsters might have changed.

      Celestia One, a megaspell that requires a small squad of pegasi, or the SPP being operational to keep the sky clear. Oh, and if the attack happens at night, Princess Celestia might have her beauty sleep interrupted in order to raise the sun early.

      damnit.

      ReplyDelete
    97. swickedJanuary 27, 2012 at 1:33 AM

      @TheLastDefender

      They had giant mechanical battle robots and guns that set fire to anything they hit. And their stealth cloaks, which ponies were never able to fully replicate.

      They had potions that could warp you in any number of ways, and could have easily figured out stuff as basic as how to filter water, since they had to of had a way to do stuff like that before magical gems.
      The ponies definitely had advantages that would allow them to set up stables quicker, but I refuse to believe the zebra just sat there and died, resigned to the idea that there was no way for them to avoid their own genocide while the ponies were building their own. They had to of done SOMETHING other than that. Maybe even fled their islands entirely. Who knows? You can do a lot of things when you fire first.

      ReplyDelete
    98. nuub3dJanuary 27, 2012 at 1:35 AM

      They may have resorted to use Giant underearth lakes Deep in the Earth as an Naturell water reservoir. Some Deep enough to be Not effected by taint and radioactivite .... Some not...

      ReplyDelete
    99. TheLastDefenderJanuary 27, 2012 at 1:40 AM

      @swicked I may be confused to what water talismans actually do I keep thinking of captain Thrush's ship the seahorse I think it's called anyway I believe it's engine used a water talisman that created water to propel it. So this leaves me confused as to whether the water talismans create water or purify it.

      ReplyDelete
    100. swickedJanuary 27, 2012 at 1:42 AM

      @TheLastDefender

      Someone asked this in the IRC. Kkat confirmed they create water. The ponies presumably just dump the water into the earth afterward, since they lack the means or reason to purify it.

      ReplyDelete
    101. Random BlankJanuary 27, 2012 at 1:58 AM

      @TheLastDefender

      Standard water talismans generate limited (though still copious) amounts of water using negligible power - they can work for centuries without maintenance.

      Water Jet talisman generates a powerful jet of water propelling the boat, but it consumes spark batteries like crazy.

      AFAIR, Stables had both water talismans and water purifiers. The problem with water purifiers is that they are lossy. I imagine it the way the removed contamination is watery sludge with a high water content that can't be separated and reused. It could still be used as fertilizer possibly, but generally put 1l of dirty water in, get 0.9l of clean water and 0.1l of very dirty water - and so the water talisman is to balance out the losses. (and also not all water would be reclaimed - i.e. most of water used to watering the trees) Also, water purifiers were between inefficient and useless concerning radiation.

      ReplyDelete
    102. RoboRedJanuary 27, 2012 at 2:01 AM

      @Nuhvok01

      I'll get back to you on the character voices thing. It's an interesting question, but my brain is too damn tired right now.

      @Bronode

      DEALER IS NOW ODO.

      Interestingly, (according to wikipedia and if my tired brain is reading this correctly) Michael Bell did VA in the first My Little Pony movie and in one of the previous cartoon series.

      In't that a kwinkydink?

      (igosleepnao)

      ReplyDelete
    103. MaklakJanuary 27, 2012 at 3:41 AM

      I'm rather baffled by the water jet talisman propelling a ship. I mean come on, strong enough to generate thrust strong enough to propel a ship upstream? Really? Even if it is at all possible, it seems like what we use for boat drive would be more efficient. The talisman itself could provide clean water for a few settlements, and their farms, if not wasted on a ship. I don't think water talismans were supposed to be powered by spark batteries. In the stables they are just plugged into the power grid. Why doesn't that ship have a generator, but uses Equestrian equivalents to batteries?

      What happened to Zebra land is as much a mystery, as what happened to China and the rest of the world in Fallout.

      ReplyDelete
    104. Random BlankJanuary 27, 2012 at 4:01 AM

      How big are power generators in Equestria?

      I wouldn't be surprised if water jet talisman produces contaminated water. At least salty.

      ReplyDelete
    105. SindriJanuary 27, 2012 at 4:30 AM

      @King Kasai
      I believe the original plan was "stability at all costs." They take about half the standard Stable population, equipment that can keep them at a minimal level of functionality and constantly controlled population for centuries, set up a system where every position is handed down to the child of the previous pony in that post (so you never have the perfect person for the job and morale might suffer, but every job has somepony filling it who was trained from birth instead of relying on somepony with the right cutie mark coming along), and they just let it run.

      The problem came when this led to a particularly crazy overmare, who then had a son before she had a daughter and decided to murder him instead of allowing a male to take control of the Stable. This sparked the Incident: the other males of the Stable protested the blatant sexism, violence broke out, and when the dust cleared a significant portion of the support equipment of the Stable was damaged and the Overmare declared that all surviving males would not be allowed to do anything other than breeding. The queue was put in place, everypony tries not to think about it, and a few generations later that's how things have always been and fighting it is pointless.


      @TheLastDefender
      We've seen several zebra ghouls; Canterlot flavor in Zebratown and a pack of normal ferals in the basement of Four Stars. As for their lands, we haven't really heard anything (just like you never hear about China in Fallout), but I'd assume them to be just as bad as Equestria. Probably less radiation because the ponies didn't rely on balefire so much, but we know there were want-it-need-its, come-to-lifes, incinerations, frezers, etc. ramped up to megaspell levels and unleashed. Then there were the monsters; with less radiation and minimal Taint they wouldn't have mutated much, but zebra lands were always full of monsters and zebra civilization and magic was the only thing keeping them down to survivable levels; with the defenses broken they'd be running freely and treating any survivors as a food supply. The old cities would likely be deathtraps, either filled with animate and hostile buildings, fascinating (to the point of mindrape) and deadly objects, or maybe still burning after all this time. The remaining zebras would be organized into tribes similar to what they had in the early days, scraping by what living they can off the land and evading or fighting monsters every step of the way. However the land itself would likely be much more fertile than that of the ponies, and with less of the poisons that Balefire and Taint leave in a place...
      I think it would probably be harder to survive at first in zebra lands, because of the monster populations and the lack of Stables, but the few survivors ought to have an easier time rebuilding. I think it would be less of the gang-filled scavenger world of Fallout and Fo:E and more like a very hostile conventional fantasy setting, with the old cities destroyed and much knowledge lost, but tribes and villages of badass survivors slowly building, growing, and learning in a land filled with monsters and heroes.


      @Maklak
      As previously stated, a normal water talisman probably uses very littler power and produces water slowly for years or centuries at a time, used in combination with filtering to keep a population comfortable indefinitely. Thrush's talisman takes massive amounts of power to jet through the water, probably because she or her father or whoever had the boat first jury-rigged it to do so. Yeah, there might be more efficient ways of driving the thing, but this works, is safe, and shows no signs of ceasing to be viable in the future given how many spark batteries and such are in the Hoof. Altering the ship to add another engine would be a huge cost and risk for debatable reward.

      ReplyDelete
    106. KippershyJanuary 27, 2012 at 5:24 AM

      @Somber
      YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY <3

      @Stoic
      haha, tis cool, thanks for the offer <3
      I'm generally pretty perceptive with this stuff and figure it all out damn quick (like I did) with little effort.

      before now I always thought it'd be cool to have an avi, but never bothered to make an O.C pony for myself to use, so didn't bother.

      so yesterday I decided to say fuck it, make one. then I was like; most realistic place to start looking would be my own blogger profile - edit the profile perhaps?

      hahah.

      ReplyDelete
    107. KippershyJanuary 27, 2012 at 5:30 AM

      @RainbowYoshi

      and in a very short term perspective, it can also mean if I read correctly.

      but we're talking literally *reads sentence*
      *looks at someone*

      If I read correctly, -something- just happened, yeah? ...crap



      but yeah. most often its remember/recall.

      ReplyDelete
    108. AnonymousJanuary 27, 2012 at 7:46 AM

      @Bronode
      I didn't suggest that she gets off scot free for things she actually did -- I'd expect her to start the game with karma in the small negatives; I just think that she shouldn't be blamed for "being a part of the 99 murder-rape machine" that she was born into, any more than an Enclave citizen bears blame for Operation Cauterize. Enclave citizens are taught that the surface is dangerous, and foals in 99 are taught to "not think about it".

      ReplyDelete
    109. O. HindsJanuary 27, 2012 at 8:21 AM

      @Somber:
      Ah. I've sent you an email about that.

      @Mech:
      Well, for official data, on 2011/12/2, Kkat posted:
      "Kkat said...

      @Cantthinkofaname1029

I can give you what is hinted at or outright stated in the story:

The land of the zebras was home to horrific monsters (to the scale that the Everfree Forest was the most homelike place in Equestria) even before the changes wrought in the wake of the war. The monsters there now are... fierce.

Entire lands (peninsulas and small islands) were completely lost in the cataclysm, crumbling back into boiling oceans as the ponies turned the full power of the sun against the zebras.

Zebras could not cast spells, but were mistresses of alchemy and enchantments. 

Zebras also had a level of functional technology that (in most fields) actually surpassed that of Equestria, particularly when it came to enchantment-enhanced or alchemically-enhanced technology. (The ponies had Steel Rangers with rocket launchers... the zebras had megaspell-carrying ICBMs powered by alchemical superfuels.) Many of the advances promoted by the Ministry of Wartime Technology were in response to superior zebra technology (such as the anti-machine rifle which was in response to zebra sentinel robots).

On that note, as well as monsters, zebra lands are riddled with hostile robots. Yay. 

The zebra lands were rich in coal and there had been a thriving industry of coal mining with much of the resources being exported to Equestria in the years before the war. Now, the land is reach in very creepy mines and still-burning underground coal fires.

The zebras did not have Stable-Tec or Stables. This is one area of technology where the zebras were significantly worse off. They did have Vaults (such as the one under Four Stars), but while these didn't have the thrill of Stable-Tec social experiments, they more than made up for it with inferior design. Oh, and most of them were built into parts of the previously-mentioned coal mines.

Before the war, the zebras had a tribal social structure unified under a ruling Caesar. Warriors from all zebra tribes comprised the Caesar's military, the Legion.

      ReplyDelete
    110. O. HindsJanuary 27, 2012 at 8:21 AM

      Martial arts training was common, and most martial art styles were originally developed by the zebras. "Fallen Caesar Style" and "Doombunny Style" to name a couple.

Zebras also had a thriving "pharmaceutical" industry. The zebras did not have the same mindset towards drugs, even dangerous and addictive ones, that most ponies did. In fact, there were groups within the Legion who specialized in fighting under the influence of drugs and alchemical enhancements. (The before-mentioned "Doombunny Style" was a modern martial art developed to take advantage of new combat drugs.)

Finally, over the course of the past two thousand years, the homeland of the zebras suffered multiple meteoric impacts, including the one multi-meteor cataclysm glimpsed in Littlepip's dream. From this, the zebras developed a religion based around fear of the stars. This was not the only religion to exist in the zebra's homeland, but it was the one held by most of the Caesars, including the one who rose to power at the cusp of the war.

In addition to the religious impact, the meteor strikes often had an environmental impact that went beyond the obvious and mundane. Like in Fallout, there are aliens in the universe of Fallout: Equestria. However, the aliens I employ are less "Mars Attacks" and more "The Colour Out of Space"."
      I also have some headcanon about Profectum (among other things; you may have noticed that I'm rather fond of the Zebras), the Zebra R&D city built inside a mesa (now island), but that's just headcanon I came up with.

      @Swicked:
      "Plus: they fired their bombs first."
      Oh, that is quite debatable. Were they preparing for a first strike? Indubitably. Did they launch the first strike? I submit to you this passage from FoEc44:
      "It had been two centuries since the megaspell known as Celestia One had been activated.  The ponies inside had ignored the destruction of the city around them, intent instead on bringing the full power of the sun itself down on those zebra islands and coastal lands that those Equestrian ponies believed held the launch sites for the bulk of the zebra’s long-range megaspell missiles.". Now, I ask you, if the missiles had already been launched, what would be the point of attacking the launch sites?

      ReplyDelete
    111. O. HindsJanuary 27, 2012 at 8:23 AM

      Well, the formatting of the quote from Kkat got a bit mangled, but I think that it ought to still be readable.

      ReplyDelete
    112. ketchup504January 27, 2012 at 8:27 AM

      @swicked In the cancelled Fallout movie, a corrupt/crazy businessman sent the first nukes China's way, which started the Great War, not the other way around. So what if Goldenblood with all his power and craziness fired the first megaspell? After all, he did want all the capable recipients of EC dead, and we still don't know his ultimate motives or actions.

      ReplyDelete
    113. AnonymousJanuary 27, 2012 at 8:28 AM

      @Stoic
      I have this feeling that P-21 really has the opposite problem -- it's hard for him to tell whether he's actually attracted to a mare, or if it's just the conditioning talking. I think that's why he gravitated to Priest; he knows that attraction is real.

      @Sindri
      Well, you pretty much ninja'd everything I had to say on all these subjects, so... good job! *brohoof*

      "I think it would be less of the gang-filled scavenger world of Fallout and Fo:E and more like a very hostile conventional fantasy setting."
      Especially this. Without the cloud cover, agriculture could resume pretty rapidly, assuming monsters didn't come along and eat everything. I expect Zebrica got the worse end of the megaspell exchange, but the radiation from the relatively dirty Zebra bombs and the Enclave's cloud cover fucked over Equestria pretty thoroughly. I would anticipate more survivors in Equestria, but a much worse environmental situation after the fact.

      ReplyDelete
    114. ketchup504January 27, 2012 at 8:28 AM

      Looks like Hinds beat me by a minute in that assumption.

      ReplyDelete
    115. BronodeJanuary 27, 2012 at 8:31 AM

      I would agree with you if she was in maintenance, education or some other passive division of the stable, but she was in Security; she actively maintained and enforced the Overmare's regime and in doing so has earned herself a huge karma debt. Not as huge as if she'd been in medical, but still pretty damn bad. The Enclave analogy fails because the civilian pegasi aren't even aware of what's happening on the surface. For that to apply to BJ, she would have had to be kept in a separate part of the stable where there weren't any males and there wasn't a breeding queue and be brought up being told the section of the stable containing the bucks was dangerous and be actively prevented from visiting it.

      Karma doesn't say anything about her actual morality, no one's arguing that she isn't a good pony but as a sum of her good actions weighted against her bad, and growing up in a place as perniciously evil as 99, her karma would end up close to the bottom of the scale when she left, and she's been working to atone for her sins ever since. Even if she couldn't grasp the weight of just what she'd done until recently. She still can't fully. For her to understand precisely what she did to P-21, I'm not sure she could unless he beat Glory to death in front of her and then carried on like it weren't no thing.

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    116. Admiral Stoic "Crusader" RumJanuary 27, 2012 at 8:31 AM

      naw if you're calling it starting the game, then her karma would be perfectly neutral...lets just say leaving with EC1101 took away any kind of negative karma and from there perfect neutral...

      Honestly karma?where's my rum!?

      ReplyDelete
    117. AnonymousJanuary 27, 2012 at 8:36 AM

      @Sindri
      In fact, it occurs to me that the two countries have practically opposite social pressures. Equestria's resources are limited in the face of a relatively large population; therefore, populations tend to split and the strong take what they need from the weak; thus, raiders (the non-cannibalistic kind) are common and the land exists in a state of perpetual war.

      Zebras, on the other hand, are driven together for mutual defense. Raw resources are relatively plentiful, but the manpower to exploit them is critically low. I would expect vast tracts of uninhabited land separating fortress-cities that have the military might to secure enough land for agriculture. Resources will still be tight, but the solution is more population, not less.

      ReplyDelete
    118. Admiral Stoic "Crusader" RumJanuary 27, 2012 at 8:39 AM

      @silentcarto

      Oh brilliant thought... I think Lacuna may be assisting with her own perception, like a lighthouse.

      ReplyDelete
    119. ScygnusJanuary 27, 2012 at 8:49 AM

      @Bronode

      Honestly, with karma I'd say intent matters. BJ didn't think anypony was getting any rawer of a deal than anypony else... mares also got 'retired' once their daughters were definitely ready to replace them, as far as I saw (with the occasional long case like the irresponsible Blackjack) and at the time she equated 'retiring' as the end of your natural life, after you'd accomplished what you were supposed to accomplish.

      And of course, as you may remember, she didn't think the males had any problem with their role. So her only karma debt was willful blindness, which was partially a survival instinct... especially after Daisy. Karma is about choices, and when she had a choice, she chose to do what she felt was right. Sure, she took a little drag by association, but overall I'd say she took little enough to be covered by luring Dues away knowing her fate if he caught her.

      To put it in the way it was put to me, if you intend to murder (define the sticky line between killing for the right reasons and killing for the wrong reasons yourself) someone and fail, it's the same amount of negative karma as if you had succeeded because you meant to do it. Conversely, killing someone you never meant any harm to by accident is a relatively minor karmic loss.

      Scoodle falls in the grey area between, but certainly closer to the former. I'd say she took more negative karma from that than anything that happened in 99, because it was by her own actions, her own choice, even if it wasn't her intent.

      ReplyDelete
    120. AnonymousJanuary 27, 2012 at 9:06 AM

      @ketchup504
      The Fallout canon is that China started the nuclear exchange because American troops were pressing toward Beijing. Their last lines of defense crumbled, and so the only remaining option was to attempt to simultaneously nuke the troops already on Chinese soil and attempt a first-strike to disable American nuclear weapons.

      In the case of FOE, there were so many superweapons about to be completed, the Zebras had to make their strike against Nightmare Moon right away or not at all. They had enough espionage assets to spy on Rarity in her own office, so they must have known about at least some of the projects. I think it was no accident that the attack coincided with the first trial of IMP.

      I really don't like the idea that some individual started the nuclear exchange. It smacks of irrational, card-carrying villainy, and there's a perfectly rational reason for it to happen without subterfuge.

      @Bronode
      But that's kind of the point. An engineer keeps her head down and makes sure the stable keeps running. A security mare keeps her head down and maintains law and order in the stable. Yes, only one of them actually escorts males to Medical for retirement, but if you're not going to blame Textbook for making use of the breeding queue, you shouldn't blame BJ either. It's not like she chose to be in Security. I'm not a moral relativist by any stretch, but I think she's exonerated to some degree by simple naïveté.

      "Karma doesn't say anything about her actual morality, no one's arguing that she isn't a good pony."
      Doesn't it? I think that's exactly what karma measures.

      ReplyDelete
    121. swickedJanuary 27, 2012 at 9:53 AM

      @silentcarto

      ...no, karma is a value in Fallout. Kinda like how she has a high luck score, but she never seemed that lucky to me.

      I think she's at best around the neutral to negative mark for karma, to be honest. Although there are legitimate plot reasons, she's gotten children killed and has bounty hunters after her (usually a sign of -100, but again, there are plot reasons for them existing), and most factions treat her with initial suspicion and hostility. These would all be signs in a game that you're doing something wrong and, in the end, the quests she's done to help people would have a hard time balancing with the harm she has caused. The quest to get the professor her files was the first positive sidequest BJ had done in a long while, to my memory. Well, and killing her entire stable, too. The DJ certainly thought it was a good thing.

      ReplyDelete
    122. BronodeJanuary 27, 2012 at 9:58 AM

      You think I'm assuming the rest of the 99 mares have neutral karma as well? No, I think they all have evil karma to some degree, I blame them all. Some are just more guilty than others. Textbook is going along with it, but she isn't in a position to do anything if she stops doing so. Security isn't just passively going along with what's happening, it's actively maintaining it and crushing any opposition to it.

      The only Ponies in 99 in my mind that have neutral/good karma are most of the males (P-21 has his own sins to bear when he leaves), the fillies, and the mares that committed suicide.

      No. Karma, as I have said, measures one's good actions weighted against one's bad. Objectively, regardless of intent. Unless you honestly believe there shouldn't be a severe karma penalty for going along with industrialised rape and murder just so she can survive living in the place, she has to have extremely negative karma.

      Morality is something different, and isn't covered by the games, it's more about why you're doing something rather than the objective impact that act has on the universe. If you played a stupid but good character in Fo3 and Eden convinced you of the value of adding the modified FEV to the water purifier, because you were acting with good intentions, does that negate the impact of the hundreds of innocent wastelanders you'd be killing with tainted water? Just because you think you're acting for the greater good doesn't mean what you're doing isn't evil.

      ReplyDelete
    123. ScygnusJanuary 27, 2012 at 10:30 AM

      @Bronode

      Actually I only agree partially. By game mechanics that might be a huge karma loss, but realistically, I'd say your karmic debt as the patsy (because you'd have to be stupid to go along with Eden's nowhere-near-convincing reasons) would be minimal (though still pretty severe, as that's a lot of deaths) compared to the huge amount suffered by the instigator.

      The game doesn't know whether the player actually buys into his nonsense or is doing it for their own reasons, of course, so it has to assign a large amount of negative karma because it doesn't know whether they believe they're doing it for the right reason or they know they're doing it for the wrong reasons.

      I'd say... patsies get 10% of the karmic debt of the instigator. Just my opinion. There's also the matter of what they do when they realized they did wrong, which can address a lot of the debt... or put them way deeper when they don't decide to change... as Blackjack did pretty much instantly when it clicked. While the rest of 99 refused to change and wanted to continue the cycle.

      I'd say she addressed most of her negative karma with her leading Dues away, and cleared off the rest with her actions to stop it.

      If you push a button you believe will kill someone for selfish reasons, and it doesn't work, are you any less evil? If you shoot a robotic duplicate of an innocent person without knowing it's a fake until the oil splashes your face, are you any less guilty? Failing is easier to forgive, but evil intent and the choice to act on it suffers a greater karmic debt than good or neutral intent leading to evil by no choice of your own. Debt all the same, but less.

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    124. RainbowYoshiJanuary 27, 2012 at 11:20 AM

      This discussion brings up another issue that I think you guys should also look at. I see the way a few of you are going about this discussion and I can only think of one thing: Arbu.

      Do the foals who killed and ate deserve all the negative karma that their parents had?

      ReplyDelete
    125. BronodeJanuary 27, 2012 at 11:26 AM

      Hmm, a 0.10 multiplier for patsies seems rather lenient. 0.25 or 0.35 sounds better, but I agree, if karma took intent into account there should be lesser/greater penalties, but we're working with a system that's only concerned with the sum objective moral value of one's actions, however strange a concept like objective morality may seem to be.

      Even so, BJ isn't someone that got suckered into what she was doing, she'd need Marm-calibre stupidity to not recognise on some level that what was being done to talking, thinking ponies in the stable was wrong, and seeing as all she had to work with was her BJ-level stupidity, she recognised things were amiss, but also that they turned out badly when she tried to speak up about them so she'd need to consciously repress those thoughts until it became reflex, until she really didn't have to think about it.

      Reluctant cog in the machine she is, blameless patsy - at least in this context - she is not.

      If she had neutral karma when she came out, then what is P-21 so upset about? why isn't he safe with firearms around BJ? Apparently she hadn't done anything seriously wrong.

      ReplyDelete
    126. ValikJanuary 27, 2012 at 11:28 AM

      Has anyone ever made a drawing of the Goddess?
      I found exactly one pencil sketch and nothing else.

      ReplyDelete
    127. ScygnusJanuary 27, 2012 at 11:34 AM

      As I doubt they knew, no. IMO there's nothing inherently evil about cannibalism. Meat's meat, once it's dead there's not really any difference. It should be avoided rigorously and only done as a last resort due to possible habit-formation, but it's a valid resource when it comes down to survival. Complete ignorance of the method used to obtain that meat, especially when their parents said it was fine, absolves them of any negative karma.

      Amusingly, if you look up 'Wendigo' which were named in 'Hearth's Warming Eve' they were mythologically spirits that possessed humans and caused cannibalism. Reading about the circumstances of the tribe the legend came from pretty much explains it, though... it sounds like they were short on food pretty often.

      Truthfully, it's an entirely different issue. They were ignorant of what was being done. In 99, everypony knew what was going on, but none of them even bothered to question whether it was right or wrong, and those that did had it beaten out of them. The social climate may have eventually changed when enough ponies wised up, but the legacy of abuse that showed up in a lot of families would have probably caused the whole place to self-destruct if it ever came down to a debate in that or any other major arena.

      ReplyDelete
    128. KimJanuary 27, 2012 at 11:36 AM

      @silentcarto Ah, okies, well true. I just added it to be sure :P

      @Robo: Will check it out later.

      @Bron: You know, she was quite "good" of the evil ones, she didn't rape the males that hard and stuff, she was still "kind" in 99.

      @OAC: I am good at being confusing xD But yeah, will try to.
      And I wasn't sure what I was talking about, but it went quite good I think xP

      @Nuhv: Actually, this is just my tame-moderate stuff xD
      And it might be, but I live in a small outskirts town, we don't have much big franchises here. Never seen one at least. They usually stick to towns.

      And I'll have to stop here and go lie down with an ice pack. I was at a funeral today and was forced to wear a dress and high heels, and that is not what you should dress me in xD I broke one heel on the way to the church and faceplanted in snow, and the other one when stepping into the church, tripping and hitting my vulva against one of those old chairs with pointy edges, right on the clit. So yeah... I'm kinda in ouchies right now. Not as much as at the time which where like, "twitching on floor, hissing to avoid screaming". But yeah, will reply and read the rest when I feel better.

      ReplyDelete
    129. RainbowYoshiJanuary 27, 2012 at 11:36 AM

      @ Scygnus

      No, no, not the Arbu foals without the Arbu mark. I'm talking about the young ones -with- the mark.

      ReplyDelete
    130. Overlong Analysis CobaltJanuary 27, 2012 at 11:51 AM

      @Scygnus
      Depends on whether or not karma is utilitarian... and I don't understand Buddhism or Hinduism enough to make a guess on that. But if it is utilitarian, then only the end results of an action matter. Mind you, I think that's fairly ridiculous for a variety of reasons that aren't necessary to lay out. But that doesn't mean karma isn't utilitarian anyway.

      @Bronode
      To be fair, P-21 can't see her karma score; he just knows what she did, and hates her for it. I can have perfect karma in FONV/3 and still have people pissed off with me. Probably because I can never resist making Vulpes Inculta step on landmines (talk about eye candy!). I do think she left 99 with negative karma, though obviously not nearly as much as, say, the Overmare or some of her fellow officers had. But PH has never been as concerned with karma scores as it is with the reasons why ponies do terrible things, and the price of making hard calls.

      @Rainbow
      ... Personally, I can't really blame them. Definitely not as much as I'd blame the original Arbu inhabitants that turned to cannibalism. That's speaking emotionally - intellectually, I don't think free will exists, so... yeah, "deserve" is kind of meaningless.

      Anyway, we all remember that one raider kid that Calamity shot. It's more or less the same thing, by my reckoning - every monster comes from somewhere, but that doesn't change the fact that they're monstrous. How far should you be willing to go to redeem a raider?

      ReplyDelete
    131. ScygnusJanuary 27, 2012 at 11:58 AM

      @Bronode

      That's subjective morality... and most don't have the ability to put aside their personal emotions and see the whole picture. P-21 would have likely remained angry with her... and indeed has... until she's dead and he has time to heal those wounds and realize that she did her best... even though it wasn't good enough. If she lives on in some form or fashion, this scare might be enough to get him to do that. Like he said, once she started thinking for herself, she did what she thought was right with no thought to the cost she would pay for it. And in that state, he considered her to be better than him. So on some level he realized she couldn't help anything she had done any more than he could help hating her for what she had done.

      It's a selfish choice to choose not to think about what wrongs you're doing, even when the consequence of doing so most likely leads to your own mother having to kill you. But I don't think anypony at all could say they wouldn't make the same decision. Cases of abuse and other mommy-issues being the exception, of course.

      One of the great causes of evil in the Stables, I suppose, is the inability to get the hell out of Dodge when you don't have any right choices.

      I guess our real argument is that I believe choice dictates karma, while you seem to believe that actions, whatever the circumstances, carry weight besides their immediate physical and social consequences.

      @RainbowYoshi

      Them? They might not have the same amount... that kind of thing builds up over time... but they'd have most of it. As the one that had refused shows, they were given plenty of chance to decide, and made the choice of their own free will. They also weren't stuck there as, as we've seen, a number of them decided 'to hell with this' and left. Not the nicest prospect for a lot of them, but the choice was there, and any with the mark chose to stay and continue doing it.

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    132. ScygnusJanuary 27, 2012 at 12:01 PM

      And damn I need to get to bed. I will return to this most fascinating discussion at a later date... possibly tonight if my phone decides it likes this page, which I haven't tested yet.

      ReplyDelete
    133. RainbowYoshiJanuary 27, 2012 at 12:04 PM

      @ Scygnus

      And the foals who got the mark after that group had left Arbu? Really, how is a foal going to look out at the wasteland and think "Yeah, I can survive out there all on my own"? The obvious choice, the one that means they get to live longer, is to stay in Arbu until they have a decent chance to get out and do something else.

      You said the mares in 99 with Blackjack don't deserve massive negative karma because what choice did they really have? They couldn't leave the stable, and killing themselves is never a viable option, so what's left? But for a foal in Arbu, what does walking out into the wastes alone amount to? It means certain death (or worse), which makes it just like suicide and puts them in the same position 99 mares were in.

      ReplyDelete
    134. AnonymousJanuary 27, 2012 at 12:10 PM

      @swicked
      "...no, karma is a value in Fallout."
      What do you mean by that?... Again, I'm not saying her karma wasn't around -150 or -200 at the beginning... just that she's not clawing her way back from -1000.

      @Bronode
      I don't see where BJ had much authority to stop anything. What is the slacker on C shift supposed to do? She tried to do right by Daisy as a foal, and got smacked down for it. She helped P-21 hide from Daisy in BJ #2. She's shown the willingness to do whatever she can to help people, even in her fucked-up environment. That doesn't say "Wasteland Destroyer" to me.

      "Karma, as I have said, measures one's good actions weighted against one's bad. Objectively, regardless of intent."
      The game isn't psychic. It has to assume you meant to do whatever you do, but that's a limitation of the machine. Intent absolutely counts for something.

      ReplyDelete
    135. RainbowYoshiJanuary 27, 2012 at 12:11 PM

      I think I'll clear something up before we go on:

      I never liked Littlepip's move in Arbu, mostly because I completely agreed with Calamity. Meat is meat, it fuels your body and keeps you alive. It doesn't matter where it comes from. But then they became murderers. That is where their negative karma comes from.

      The problem enters when you ask yourself in karma is hereditary. When you are told by your parents that "this is fine" or "don't think about it", and you have no reasonable means to get out of the situation and do anything different than what you're told, are your actions reflective more on you or on your parents?

      ReplyDelete
    136. UnknownJanuary 27, 2012 at 12:14 PM

      Sins of the father, passed to his son.

      ReplyDelete
    137. AnonymousJanuary 27, 2012 at 12:14 PM

      @O. Hinds
      Oh, and by the way...
      "...Zebra R&D city built inside a mesa (now island)..."
      I love this idea. Is that from an existing fic, or just something in your head thus far?

      ReplyDelete
    138. RainbowYoshiJanuary 27, 2012 at 12:15 PM

      @ Silent

      I think swicked was trying to separate the Buddhist/Hindu/whatever version of Karma that you seemed to be using from the Fallout version of Karma that Bronode and he seem to be using.


      Which is a problem... Because half of us are discussing on a philosophical level, and the other half are discussing on a game mechanics level. Personally, I think that FOE and PH have transcended mere game mechanics simply because of how many philosophical or otherwise MLP/real world explanations for some game mechanics. They may still use those game mechanics, but they way they are measured or changed isn't quite as simple as in Fallout.

      ReplyDelete
    139. AnonymousJanuary 27, 2012 at 12:30 PM

      @RainbowYoshi
      I agree with you regarding Arbu, except where cannibalism became something more than a last resort, and where they sold the meat along under false pretenses. After all, even 99 wasn't intended to recycle the dead.

      Unknown isn't wrong. Hereditary crimes are some of the hardest to overcome. The raider colt isn't a bad parallel (no matter how cute Slug may be.) However, the fact that Arbu kept their habits secret indicates they knew it was wrong and unacceptable. I think that's where the line comes between Arbu and 99. Every foal in Arbu has to have asked why they have to keep it all in the basement, and as they mature, they must have questioned that. They didn't have to strike out on their own -- caravans come to town regularly, and any colt or filly who was unhappy could run away with one of them. In 99, there was no conspiracy of silence. It was all out in the open, treated as normal. No reason to question.

      ReplyDelete
    140. O. HindsJanuary 27, 2012 at 12:38 PM

      @silentcarto
      Just something in my head. As it happens, though, I've got some more information on Profectum already typed up (I was telling someone else about it); I'll send you an email.

      ReplyDelete
    141. AnonymousJanuary 27, 2012 at 12:39 PM

      @RainbowYoshi
      I wouldn't know Hindu karma if it reincarnated me as a two-headed brahmin. I just presuppose the game is attempting to quantify morality, and that our sense of morality should therefore override what the game might mechanistically think of any particular action.

      ReplyDelete
    142. ketchup504January 27, 2012 at 1:23 PM

      @silentcarto i never said it was canon, and it WAS part of the cancelled movie script. My point was that Golden may have sent the first blow, given how twisted he was. And i agree that there was other causes that can work to explain who started it. Its just an idea.
      On another point, i'm glad i could become part of a conversation.

      ReplyDelete
    143. swickedJanuary 27, 2012 at 1:25 PM

      I think the child likely builds up a negative karma score just like anyone else. Theft, even from thieves, even when it's for something you need (water on hardcore, for instance), is still -10. I can't imagine a child having a bad enough karma score to kill, though, so those arbu kids probably still cost littlepip, what was it again, -100 each? And the childkiller perk, of course. I was a bit surprised that never came back to bite her.

      In any case, I'm separating their karma score from their morality. Morally, they might still be good. Their morality is more of a natural concept regarding if they are actually evil or not, rather than a score.

      And hindu karma is, in general, a terrible concept. It makes you think something good will happen to you or others just because you are nice, and lets you look on the misfortune of others and say "Well, they must have had it coming. If not for this life, then for their previous one."

      I do not like it.

      But overall, considering Blackjack starts the game in 99, she probably doesn't actually have a negative karma modifier THAT huge. Maybe -2000 for being a resident of such a demented stable. I dunno.

      ReplyDelete
    144. SindriJanuary 27, 2012 at 1:48 PM

      @ketchup504
      Being cancelled, that's non-canon. And from what I've seen of it, I'm glad it was never made canon.
      In the official Fallout 'verse, there is no evidence remaining as to who shot first. All we know is that both sides used nuclear weapons, in quantities great enough to destroy the majority of the opposing country. Because really it doesn't matter whose fault it is, just that it happened. Both nations had motive and capability, the fire had been built, does it really matter where the spark came from?

      In PH, I believe that Goldenblood knew that the end would come, and maybe even when, but wasn't directly involved in its instigation. But we still don't have anywhere near enough evidence.


      @Swicked
      Good characters, like Stronghoof, Priest, Crumpets, Bottlecap, etc. have all reacted favorably to Blackjack. It's the evil characters that are immediately hostile, which is a sign of an excessively high karma score in game terms. The bounty hunters are a set of random encounters that are introduced after completion of the "duel with Deus in Megamart" section of the main quest, and are unaffected by morality. As for good aligned side quests... saving P-21? Killing the mutant dragon? Hunting slavers? Building the defenses of Flank and Chapel? Sure there were a couple of early quests that she just took for the caps, but even on those she's done everything she can to make things better along the way.


      @Bronode
      It was a common practice to murder younger males in order to stay on the queue longer before being replaced and retired. Either the males are also below average in karma score, or murdering the closest thing in the Stable to innocents is excusable for self-preservation, and thus every mare that didn't actively support the system is at least average.

      She opposed the system to the extent she was capable of without being executed herself, going so far as to help males to hide when they escaped and violently oppose other mares who were about to "break Stable equipment." I'm not saying she never did anything wrong in the Stable, but she was higher on the karma scale than virtually anypony else there. Do you consider every citizen of an opressive nation to be responsible for their leaders' crimes, simply because they do not attempt a hopeless rebellion? What about citizens of neighboring nations, for not invading and forcing change?

      ReplyDelete
    145. SindriJanuary 27, 2012 at 1:50 PM

      @RainbowYoshi
      Cannibalism is not wrong, just risky and typically considered disgusting. Meat is meat, and they're not using theirs anymore. Hunting sentient creatures for food is evil because of the murder, not the eating. Everypony in Arbu with the Mark was a willing, knowing murderer. It wasn't required; they'd eat either way, like the crazy old buck with the "shotgun" did. They killed for the pleasure and the honor of killing. So yes, they are responsible and should be held accountable. You could argue that they're less horrible than a murderer in an idyllic society would be, because they were brought up believing that murder was just part of life, but they still had the option to not slaughter innocent ponies and didn't take it.


      @Kim
      OW. Take care of yourself, and watch out for those chairs. They can be treacherous.


      @silentcarto
      Cannibalism, without murder, is not inherently wrong. It carries a much higher risk of disease than other meats and thus is generally considered inadvisable, but objectively if you can avoid disease it's more nutritious than most, and it just rots if it's not used.
      As for why they hid their actions? Most cultures teach that cannibalism is evil. Just like you were taught. Just like foals in 99 were taught that the breeding queue was right and just. Just like so many children today in our world are taught that homosexuality is evil. So they knew that if they became common knowledge they'd be persecuted.
      But yes, every foal in Arbu knew what was going on, and had the opportunity to either leave or stay as an unmarked second class citizen. Every pony with an Arbu mark was a murderer, and fully responsible for that.

      ReplyDelete
    146. swickedJanuary 27, 2012 at 2:07 PM

      @Sindri
      Eating anything that's already dead wouldn't be wrong, per say. I think it had a minor negative hit in Fallout, but more importantly caused anyone who saw you do it attack you.

      Also: totally forgot about the defense and defenses added to both Flank and Chapel. Those would have been massive positives, so yeah, I'll buy that she's pretty high in karma. The peace between the diamond dogs and the settlers probably counts, too.

      ReplyDelete
    147. swickedJanuary 27, 2012 at 2:11 PM

      @Kim

      Wow, those are cruddy shoes... get well soon x_X

      ReplyDelete
    148. theBSDudeJanuary 27, 2012 at 2:21 PM

      @swicked

      Each corpse eaten or harvested is worth one point of bad karma.

      ReplyDelete
    149. Overlong Analysis CobaltJanuary 27, 2012 at 2:37 PM

      @swicked
      I love the karma system in New Vegas. I can commit daily acts of genocide, corpse mutilation, child-traumatization (can't kill 'em, but I can chase them with a chainsaw, by god), and corpse looting, but it's aaaaaallll gooooood because I never touched the Legion's crates of explosives that they will no doubt go on to use to blow up Freeside. Remember: it's almost always a -10 every time BJ's crew took something from a building that a faction was hanging out in. Even a faction they were at war with. Even if they'd already killed everypony inside the building. =P Because stealing is the one crime that's never okay. Unless it's something a dead person was carrying - at that point, you can steal medicine from the Followers of the Apocalypse without karma loss.

      So, um, yeah. The karma system in FONV is silly. And BJ's probably at super evil karma for stealing from the Thunderheads at some point. >_>

      @Kim
      Ouch... Yeah, I've been hit in the unmentionables a few times, but never with anything pointy. That sounds really painful. Sorry to hear about the physical pain, and the stress and the funeral. Hope things start looking up for you soon.

      ReplyDelete
    150. MechJanuary 27, 2012 at 4:47 PM

      Finally got around to creating our misfit alicorn, Gloryjack-21.

      http://mistermech.deviantart.com/art/GloryJack-21-281846505

      ReplyDelete
    151. AnonymousJanuary 27, 2012 at 5:20 PM

      @ketchup504
      It just seems to me that assigning direct blame for the nuclear war to any one entity makes it... less tragic, I guess. It seems to go against the themes of Fallout by providing a villain rather than making humanity's worse nature the villain. As Sindri said, I'm glad it was never made canon.

      @swicked
      I think your numbers are off by an order of magnitude. Karma runs -1000 to +1000.
      I believe you're a little off on the Hindu thing... karma determines what social class and circumstances a person is reincarnated into, not the exact events and luck they have in life. But I'm not Hindu and I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of the religion, so I may be talking out of my plot.
      That said, I agree with you that the whole concept acts to hold everyone within their own social class.

      @Mech
      Please allow me to be the first to congratulate you. Her continued... 'horn problems' made me laugh out loud, and I love the cutie mark cards you drew.

      ALL HAIL QUEEN WHISKEY!

      ReplyDelete
    152. Random BlankJanuary 27, 2012 at 5:27 PM

      At least now she'll be able to properly direct her divine wrath on those who mock her!
      Also, alicorn mare with narcissistic problem of split personalities in love with each other... meaning likely prone to masturbation. P-21 is not amused.

      ReplyDelete
    153. O. HindsJanuary 27, 2012 at 5:42 PM

      @Mech
      ...
      That is really awesome. Sorry, I'm even worse at commenting on visual art then I am on written art (well, the visual art itself; what the art is of might be a different matter, depending on what that is), but it is definitely awesome.

      ReplyDelete
    154. UnknownJanuary 27, 2012 at 5:51 PM

      @mech

      I don't think Red Eye would do this. Being merged with Black Jack means he gets her CRAZY too.

      Would you really want that in your head all the time? Some crazy drunken mad-mare running around in your head messing with things. I'd jump out of the taint vat if she was tossed in personally.

      No seriously, balls to having her craziness all over my craziness, they'd crazy it up and make more crazy split personalities. THEN WHO THE FUCK WOULD BE IN CONTROL???

      I am a mentally unsound man.

      all hail queen whiskey.

      ReplyDelete
    155. swickedJanuary 27, 2012 at 6:10 PM

      @Mech

      Haha, nice.

      @silentcarto
      I typed an extra 0 on the last one. I meant -200. I mean, no matter her karma from her actions in the stable, it's supposed to be a more general representation of a person's standing in the world, even though it's affected by actions no one sees, like stealing. What she did in 99 was acceptable in 99, and no one outside of it would likely be all that aware of it.
      I couldn't remember what it is for killing an innocent, though, so I guessed at 100. Probably a bit high, though, now that I look at it.

      ReplyDelete
    156. ketchup504January 27, 2012 at 6:15 PM

      @silentcarto I really never thought how tragic the war was in Fallout, until I read FO:E and PH. Then it seemed less tragic than the pastel ponies and their apocalypse, probably because I read this, giving a better immersion, and I played Fallout. Of course, you people are(very)likely significantly older than I, and thus have more insight into what is tragic and what is simply fact. Because the way I saw it until I read Fo:E was just that the apocalypse happened, and it set the stage for what you can do in the games. I've played only 3 and NV, as FO 1 and 2 aren't really my type of game, but I love to read about them.

      ReplyDelete
    157. BronodeJanuary 27, 2012 at 6:38 PM

      Ha! Nice, Mech!

      I see somepony isn't pulling their morphological weight in that little gestalt.

      Okay, Sindri, then some males have a below neutral karma score too. This is the point I'm trying to drive home; 99 was an evil place and you needed to do evil in order to survive. You either did terrible things in 99 and lived or refused and died. BJ might have been a relative exemplar of justice in 99 but the fact she's alive and only an irritation to the Overmare necessitates and underlines her complicity in those crimes.

      Just because her heart wasn't in it doesn't excuse her actions. She does, however, make an excellent stab at atoning for them throughout her time on the surface.

      She didn't oppose the system at all. She might have bitched about it and shirked her responsibilities a bit, but I didn't see her withdrawing from the breeding queue out of protest. She made sure stable property wasn't unduly damaged a few times, but she opposed Daisy with force once. After rounding up P-21 to be murdered.

      She probably did more good in there than any other security mare, but she still did a lot of things wrong. A lot of things. Just because she might have been the better or best of a bad bunch doesn't mean she wasn't vile in her own way and only just begins to absolve her of her crimes.

      Do I hold the citizenry of an opressive nation responsible? Yes, I do. For it is through their inaction that such oppressive regimes are allowed to perpetuate, and how can it ever be known for certain that any rebellion is ever hopeless? As for neighboring nations, possibly to some extent. Without detailed information on the situation in both nations as well as those surrounding them it's impossible to make a judgement.

      And Kim, sorry to hear about your, uh... soft tissue damage. And thanks for the heads up, if I ever decide to rape someone, I'll be sure to be gentle and tell them I could have been a lot rougher so they won't hold a grudge.

      ReplyDelete
    158. TheLastDefenderJanuary 27, 2012 at 7:35 PM

      @Bronode
      I'm a little confused by this discussion. If were talking about gameplay mechanics shouldn't she start with neutral karma? My other source of confusion is coming from what exactly it is your suggesting Blackjack do.

      ReplyDelete
    159. AnonymousJanuary 27, 2012 at 7:53 PM

      @swicked
      Starting at -200 sounds about right to me. That's still low-neutral.

      @TheLastDefender
      That's exactly what we're discussing. If it helps, consider the childhood vignettes from FO3 and imagine that the relevant scenes were played out in those, and thus the karma changes occurred during gameplay.

      ReplyDelete
    160. DerpmindJanuary 27, 2012 at 7:55 PM

      @Mech

      All hail Queen Whiskey!

      ReplyDelete
    161. TheLastDefenderJanuary 27, 2012 at 8:03 PM

      @silentcarto
      Did they? I remember you could gain karma during the escape scene and the G.O.A.T scene but did they change during the birthday scene? Granted you can't really do anything in the birthday scene. If FO3 was more realistic I guess you could cripple your dad's eyes with the BB gun or something. I'm rambling now anyway the point I was trying to make with that was did the Cutceanara recording count as the birthday scene or the goat scene?

      ReplyDelete
    162. Admiral SparkleJanuary 27, 2012 at 8:30 PM

      No matter where I start reading these comments, it's all a blur. Somber, just how far ahead did you plan the rape scene and her death? Just wondering, because having BJ blind seemed like a good way to tone it down, and yet increase the force it carried. You know, like swinging a pillow instead of a hammer, but doing so 1000 times harder. I dunno.

      If anyone else knows (no way in help I'm going through all the comments) I'd appreciate an answer from anyone ;3

      ReplyDelete
    163. Admiral Stoic "Crusader" RumJanuary 27, 2012 at 9:12 PM

      HEY GUYS!!!! ABOUT MECH PITURE, THIS IS ONLY BLACKJACK GLORY AND P21 THERE IS NO RED EYE... ONLY THE OFFER OF ALICORNIFICATION!

      Signed
      Admiral Rum

      ReplyDelete
    164. AnonymousJanuary 27, 2012 at 10:08 PM

      @TheLastDefender
      Uhh... it counts as the Cutecenera scene. I didn't mean there was a one-to-one correspondence to the scenes from FO3. I just meant that if we're pretending this is a game, there might be ways to allow the player to gain/lose karma before Deus enters the Stable without just starting them 200 in the hole.

      @Stoic
      *facehoof* Celestia's mane, now I have Stronghoof and the Red Hot Chili Peppers singing "Alicornication" in my head. (Or maybe Alifornication?)

      ReplyDelete
    165. Nuhvok01January 27, 2012 at 10:13 PM

      @Somber and the crew.

      What happens to the story if something major happens to MLP's canon? Like there is supposed to be a third Alicorn being introduced into the show. Being so far into the story, do you just ignore it and keep the story based of of MLP Canon version 2.11, or do you try and make changes to keep it accurate to MLP Canon version 2.12?

      ReplyDelete
    166. DerpmindJanuary 27, 2012 at 10:20 PM

      @Nuhvok01
      There are tons of fics that were based off head-cannon and invalidated by new episodes in season 2. For example, almost every Luna fic prior to Nightmare Night. This really doesn't effect the stories any more than it does any alternate-universe fic, and I know a few old-running stories that kept their own internal cannon running after the show had something-or-other that if technically means that the events in the story could never happen.

      So, if my being half-asleep didn't mess that explanation up, basically the answer is mostly no. Uh..... yeah, I'm too tired to think this through completely, sorry.

      ReplyDelete
    167. RainbowYoshiJanuary 27, 2012 at 10:25 PM

      Blackjack didn't add any defenses to Chapel.

      @ Mech

      That is just so... wrong! lol

      @ Bronode

      What is an acceptable alternative to forced complicity to those crimes? Suicide?

      Wait wait wait... you're holding the innocent and completely non-complicit citizenry of an oppressive regime responsible for not going out and getting themselves killed in what really is a hopeless rebellion attempt? Are you being serious? In an oppressive regime that has complete control of law enforcement, rebellion is not an option. You can't create a successful rebellion spontaneously, you have to plan it. But you'll never get far enough along in the planning before you're all busted and executed.

      Blackjack could not have rebelled on her own, she would've been killed first. Maintenance was planning a little rebellion, and you saw what happened there. The law enforcement, controlled by the oppressive regime, caught wind of it and went to shut it down by force before it really took off and went anywhere.

      Blackjack was trapped. No matter how hard she tried, there was no way she was getting out or changing anything about how Stable 99 was run. You is not morally reprehensible or bad karma to survive.

      Does Blackjack get bad karma every time she puts herself on the breeding queue? Yes. Does she get bad karma when she retires a male? Yes, but less because she's forced to do that. Does she get bad karma because she chose life instead of a pointless death trying to fight something that could never be defeated in the situation she was in? No.

      ReplyDelete
    168. TheLastDefenderJanuary 27, 2012 at 10:27 PM

      This comment has been removed by the author.

      ReplyDelete
    169. Admiral Stoic "Crusader" RumJanuary 27, 2012 at 10:51 PM

      Derpedy Derp derp... durp Derp!

      may Celestia Forgive my Tongue.

      ReplyDelete
    170. Admiral Stoic "Crusader" RumJanuary 27, 2012 at 11:06 PM

      *Queues up for P21* YES I'm next!!! ride the pony ride the pony, hes sooo hawt!... now its the ponies turn to ride! yeeehaw!!!! save a horse ride a cowboy...ooo too deep... thats the ticket.... ahhhh!!! ungh ungh ungh.... my turn!!!! weeee!!!!!

      and that's how we defeated sanguine...and the stable dweller

      ReplyDelete
    171. SindriJanuary 27, 2012 at 11:47 PM

      @Bronode
      Out of curiosity, what nation do you currently reside in, and how familiar are you with the various atrocities being perpetuated in China, North Korea, undeveloped regions of Africa, etc.?

      ReplyDelete
    172. TheLastDefenderJanuary 27, 2012 at 11:48 PM

      @silentcarto
      From a gameplay perspective that's still a little odd I don't remember much about chapter 1 so I'm gonna use the BJ P21 recordings as an example. In fo3 the scenes of your time in the vault are played as they happen. But in Project horizons you learn after the fact so you'd start off with negative karma with no explanation why. Which would be confusing to the player. But the way karma seems to play out in Fallout Equestria point to her having positive karma. The first case of this being IIRC when she went to Mega mart and was let in free of charge. Now I'm not saying she left with positive karma but somewhere between stable 99 and Mega mart it turned positive. All this could be wrong of course I'm going off memory and mine is shoddy at best.

      ReplyDelete
    173. Admiral Stoic "Crusader" RumJanuary 28, 2012 at 12:07 AM

      You should see the little child I hung up by the entrails the other day... looked so lovely hanging off of the trellis

      ReplyDelete
    174. O. HindsJanuary 28, 2012 at 12:22 AM

      @Stoic
      …ooooKAY. That's not creepy at all! I do assume that you're joking, but… might I ask why you randomly said that?

      ReplyDelete
    175. swickedJanuary 28, 2012 at 12:30 AM

      To get a reaction. Clearly.

      ReplyDelete
    176. Admiral Stoic "Crusader" RumJanuary 28, 2012 at 12:44 AM

      He's still twitching is all, and the banging is getting irritating

      ReplyDelete
    177. Overlong Analysis CobaltJanuary 28, 2012 at 12:54 AM

      @Stoic
      Defeat Sanguine... by... having sex with P-21? Repeatedly?
      ...
      Fair enough. I mean, so long as he's okay with it. I'm not sure how it'd work, and I don't really want to know, but hey.

      @Mech
      A thousand times yes! In some theoretical alternate universe (I realize these may not even be possible under normal conditions) this is the direction the story took, and it was silly and gloryjack-21-ous. Unrelatedly, in that universe everyone refers to hats as "hair-mittens."

      @Sindri
      I'm familiar with many of those atrocities, and I agree that I don't much like blaming people for picking life when the choice is between that and horrific death. At the same time, though, those places aren't going to get better unless someone says that enough is enough - and to some people (not to me precisely, but to some), refusing to disobey is still wrong. I'm not sure that putting the moral onus of action on the victims is not the right way to go about affecting change. But there comes a point at which it is preferable to act out in futile rebellion than to obey, or at least this point clearly exists for some folks. And if you can get international attention directed towards your enemy by dying, or if you can kill a bunch of important people, or just generally exercise power, that can start changing things then and there. That'd be positive karma if the Fallout system was functional (unless it's a pacifist system, in which case it's civil disobedience only).

      Notably, though, I think Bronode is talking about the Fallout system of karma, which can be... wonky.

      I guess what I'm trying to get at is that people have varying levels of sympathy for people who choose to become tools rather than be discarded. Kill the innocent or risk almost certain death yourself - that's the choice. And it's not an easy one for most people.

      Don't want to take up multiple posts with this, so I'm not going to try to go in-depth with this. Suffice it to say that I don't have the answer.

      ReplyDelete
    178. MaklakJanuary 28, 2012 at 1:23 AM

      You guys seem to overlook one possibility: Put oneself on the breeding queue as often as possible with males like P21 and give them a breather. Maybe smuggle them some supplies too, if they ask.

      ReplyDelete
    179. Admiral Stoic "Crusader" RumJanuary 28, 2012 at 1:35 AM

      OAC, I've made it with a dalek...inform the men.

      Yes I said it for the reaction and now you've reacted...I'm much more sober now and I've got to get some sleep or something.

      Then again...P21 is so very sexy...

      On an unrelated note, my apartment smells of canned catfood... I have not had that stuff for months

      ReplyDelete
    180. Rexhunter99January 28, 2012 at 1:48 AM

      So Blackjack isn't dead, dead right? I mean... I actually like this fic more than the original FoE... (weird eh?) I dunno what it is about it, the grim stuff is really grim of course... but maybe its because BJ actually has some real character to her, when LP was designed to be somewhat reader painted, she was variable and in my opinion uninteresting.

      ReplyDelete
    181. MaklakJanuary 28, 2012 at 3:00 AM

      Hey, I finally found how to upload a blogger picture. Use this link: http://www.blogger.com/edit-profile.g

      As to how much people in oppressive regimes are responsible for going along with it, I'm ambivalent. I'm a coward, so I understand cowards. On the other hoof there are sometimes little things people can do to make things more bearable. Black Jack went that route in 99. Even P21 said, she was the most moral mare in security, and that it is depressing. There are some heroes who oppose evil, and pay the price for it, but there are mostly cowards who want to live and be left in peace.

      As for evil regimes, Israel is at least worth a mention. There are some pretty oppressive things going on there too.

      ReplyDelete
    182. FeintingfoxJanuary 28, 2012 at 3:28 AM

      @Maklak

      Just like with P-21, I would assume the other males had their breeding sessions recorded. I doubt you would be allowed to continue signing up for the queue if it's found out you are just hanging around and not actually using the males to breed.

      ReplyDelete
    183. KatarnJanuary 28, 2012 at 5:02 AM

      Really liked both FO:E and PH...don't know why, but when I read this all (english not my native, not even a little) there is one song, which is common both from LP and BJ...well in my opinion, its "Hero" by Nickelback http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1CPrRSyyv0
      Can't wait and read next chapter...even thinking on transliterating PH in russian (one of my native, I'm not from russia)...but I fear it will be too hard for me.
      Again, thx Somber for really coll story

      ReplyDelete
    184. MaklakJanuary 28, 2012 at 5:22 AM

      @ Feintingfox
      Maybe, but I don't think so. I doubt medical or anypony cared what a mare did on her session, as long as breeding equipment wasn't too damaged afterwards. Besides males were being used for breeding, but mostly for entertainment. Use a very loose definition for entertainment, get a dancing or cuddling session or a massage or something, or make some funny noises to the microphone, and you're set. Just don't brag, and be smart about it. IMO a mare catched doing this would at worst be seen as weird, but harmless fetishist. She might also be able to pass on this sort of compassion to her daughter. Also: try and screen U-1s and P-1s for potential problems, be gentle to them and try to make life more bearable for them [Speech:] "Look, this is going to be a part of your life from now on. I'll be gentle, and try to teach you how to do this and endure. If you REALLY don't want sex today, thats fine too, but you have a mare scheduled for tomorrow, and she won't be so understanding, and will send you to medical if you fail. I'm really your best option now. At the very least lets lie on my bed next to each other, so you start getting used to it."

      ReplyDelete
    185. TheLastDefenderJanuary 28, 2012 at 6:37 AM

      @Feintingfox
      Yeah but there audio recordings which can be very easily fooled.

      ReplyDelete
    186. SomberJanuary 28, 2012 at 6:58 AM

      when you write a fanfic... you sometimes get an idea in your head. The idea becomes an image. The image becomes a requirement. The requirement and obsession! And then somepony comes along that you tell the idea to and they go 'Well... that's REALLY out of character...' to which you reply 'habazawah?'

      Such a thing has happened with 34. And the thing that sucks is that I REALLY liked the image the idea created. But, in retrospect and in conversations, I come to the conclusion that... yes... it is really out of character. And so I must choose whether to force the OOCness... of which I have done far too much... or change ten or twelve pages of writing.

      And then a little part of me whines 'But I'm LAZY....'

      Unfortunately though, there's no help for it. So Ch34 might be pushed back a tad. Hopefully... really hopefully... we get it finished by tomorrow. Otherwise... yeah... sigh... sorry...

      And it was such a fun idea too...

      ReplyDelete
    187. Random BlankJanuary 28, 2012 at 7:30 AM

      @RainbowYoshi
      I don't think two or three ponies in 99, with their minds set on the goal, and starting off determined enough instead of escalating the conflict gradually couldn't fix the system.
      What I mean specifically by "determined enough": start off by killing the overmare. Have the chief of security on your side (or be one).

      Gin Rummy, together with BJ, Duct Tape, P-21 and maybe Midnight might have pulled it off. It wouldn't be Duct Tape dying in terminal-related accident but the Overmare. Gin Rummy would take over, give Blackjack the duty of investigation the causes, which BJ would determine as accident without any doubt, then gradually males would be given rights, responsibilities and could eventually return to normal life...

      ReplyDelete
    188. SindriJanuary 28, 2012 at 7:31 AM

      @Feintingfox
      If medical or the Overmare's minions were aware of P-21's recordings, there would have been severe consequences for his attempts to learn escape techniques, the various Stable secrets that had been revealed to him, etc. I'd guess that most males had that function locked, and he either broke it himself or talked Duct Tape into unlocking it for him.


      @Somber
      Alas. Take your time; you don't want to end up feeling like retconning things later. Once you've got it all hammered out, can we know what the original idea was?

      ReplyDelete
    189. SindriJanuary 28, 2012 at 7:36 AM

      @Random Blank
      Highly unlikely to succeed, and in the likely event that such an attempt failed the conspirators would be summarily executed. Meaning that the three best ponies in the Stable, the ones who'd been obstructing the Overmare's crazier schemes and softening what blows they could, would be gone. And anypony who sympathized with them or showed similar ideals would be prosecuted. As bad as 99 was, there was plenty of room for things to get worse.
      Is it really worth it to risk the only good (or neutral) parts of an evil group for a slim chance of slight improvements?

      ReplyDelete
    190. Random BlankJanuary 28, 2012 at 7:41 AM

      argh. No. Somber, you are the author, you know better!!! You define what is in character - how the character evolves or drastically changes. Assertive Glory FTW! And after Black every change will be justified, every single one...

      ReplyDelete
    191. TheLastDefenderJanuary 28, 2012 at 7:46 AM

      @Somber
      I'm certain whatever decision you make will be the right one.

      ReplyDelete
    192. KimJanuary 28, 2012 at 7:46 AM

      @Stoic P-21: I remember that scene. And not sure if I meant P-21 alone, or gays in general. Or what I actually wrote about xD But point being, if he could choose, then going at it with a mare wouldn't be his preferred path to take.

      @Swicked (and about the zebra): Actually, they fired the "apocalypse starter" first. It's confirmed that the ponies reigned death on them as well. So no, they didn't get off scot free or had time to hide. As said, it was a desperate attempt to get rid of nighmare moon. The ponies used megaspells to wreck shit up in their homeland. And it was confirmed they were bad at making stables (the "zebra made" (the basement of that one building. If I recall right.) one proved incapable of blocking radiation, and all inhabitants turned dead or ghoul.

      But I'd imagine it pretty wasteland, but with more death things.

      @ the Karma discussion: I have a great system for that in my RPG module. If you have good karma (a true virtue) you get bonuses for helping others, or more directly: you give others bonuses. And you can spend/burn friendship points to do something heroic or noble (easy example: Dash burned some to pull off the sonic rainboom and save Rarity and the wonderbolts from plummeting to their deaths) one with negative karma (corrupted virtue) gets bonuses to helping themselves, but can only burn friendship points (and have less of them) to save their own sorry ass. At least I think that is a good idea... and to give a random example of "karma", in D&D, there's a lawful good deity for paladins that has the "kill/purge evil and it's spawn" as it's motto. We come across a baby of two necromancers. The paladin? shanks it dead, reciting their gods words. My chaotic neutral eleti scribe? drops his jaw, (quite literally actually, comes with being undead sometimes) that baby was just genetic material to him, it wasn't naturally evil. It's not like it was an abyssal or infernal being. Althou, considering he could smite my ass just for being living impaired, I couldn't do shit. Oh, I just have to quote something from a RP I was in. We were tasked to wipe out a "lair/camp of evil doers", we had a "Fluttershy" druid, a killing happy paladin, a combat crazed fighter, a broody as FUCK sorcerer, a wicked halfling chaos monk, and me,the kobold assassin that tried and failed miserably with convincing the other that not all kobolds are sneaky bastards. Anyhow, the two trigger happy characters slaughtered their way through the whole camp, women and men, they didn't really look much before they killed. Then they chopped down some women that attacked the furiously with no armour or weapons just to reach the nursery. They stopped at the entrance, looking at the around 50 infants and the two remaining caretakers that looked for something to defend the young with. The sorcerer pushes past them, raises her hands and casts burning hands, igniting the whole ward, then turns to them and states flatly: "Not as fun when there's children involved now is it?" that campaign was epic thou, slowly over time, the party realize that they have been fighting on the wrong side, the "evil doers" are just people fighting to survive while the ones they fight for just want to take their land. They notice this as they were loading catapults with dead children (and wounded ones) of said "enemy" and fired at them to wrack their morale.
      ->

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    193. KimJanuary 28, 2012 at 7:47 AM

      @ Regarding my pride: Yeah, it hurt quite allot, but it's fairly okay now. Barely that "pleasant" dull throbbing you get on wounds that doesn't really hurt, just tells you it healed. And really, I don't see the point of high heels, they just cause damage to the skeletal structure and hurts to walk in. Not to mention hinders your movement. (and that the quality usually sucks, heck, they recommend that you re-sole and everything them straight after purchase. Oh, and "don't walk in them". It's like a sex toy with the label. Do not expose to moisture. And I am trailing off again xP

      @Mech: I wonder what P-21 would think about loosing his manhood xP Also, can alicorns get drunk? Otherwise only possibly Glory would be happy about that merge xD ... their "alone time" would be technical masturbation, much to poor P-21's dismay, it's like being a Siamese twin, and your other half is gay haha. (don't mean to be offensive if it sounded like it)

      And @Feint: Ok, haha. I had a quite funny mental imagine of a mare signing up just to talk, then security kicked in the door going "Aha! She's not having sexual intercourse, get her!" then both were forced to do it or... something with both going "But I don't even like..." xD

      @Maklak: Gah, thanks for reminding me of that. Now I'll be thinking off it for days ^=^' That would be so adorable... in a very wrong way. I wonder if they had a mare like that? I mean, "male school" would probably teach them how to eat out and properly buck to get the mare off and all that. And ofc, to be a good "pet" and whatnot, and to be able to take charge for those that want it. Mainly possibly stamina/endurance training. Gah, bad brain xD Althou, it would be more likely she would be more "strict" and just rape or beat the stallions that didn't comply.

      @Bron: Thanks, still find it stupid with people that don't think it hurts, I mean heck, it's a freaking nerve cluster xD And um... okay? I am honestly confused over what I said, but okay...

      @Somber: Well, you could always toss in some drug use, alicorn mind control or stuff to make the ooc happen (or swap who does it). And both me and my mini-me would actually like if you would take a chill for a bit, I need time to recover and rest xP

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    194. Random BlankJanuary 28, 2012 at 7:51 AM

      @Sindri
      Who would execute them? Marmalade & Daisy? The medical ponies? The overmare with her own hooves?
      If bad came to worse, the Overmare's death wouldn't be accidental. Actually the chief of security could have pulled it off all by herself. And once that one crazy bitch was dead, things would be bound to get better, because you'd be hard-pressed to find any pony suited worse for the job than her.

      You compare a country of many millions of people to a closed community of 500 ponies. Without the overmare there would be no opposition. And getting one arrogant bitch killed when you're the only one with keys to the gun locker should be quite easy.

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    195. SindriJanuary 28, 2012 at 8:03 AM

      @Random Blank
      There were five hundred ponies in the Stable. Roughly four hundred of them were, due to a combination of conditioning and self-interest, completely loyal to the Overmare. That included the majority of Security.
      Any rebellion would have exactly one chance, and if they didn't have either a truly incredible plan or a huge support base it would have virtually no chance of success, and only make things worse in the long run. Remember the first Incident?

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    196. SindriJanuary 28, 2012 at 8:16 AM

      It's easy to think in terms of big damn heroes, and epic battles between good and evil, but the romanticized image of rebellion never works in reality or a realistic fictional setting. And a failed rebellion only makes things worse. Unless you have a good realistic chance of success, and are sure that the benefits will outweigh the short-term consequences of the war and the systemic destabilization, attempting any sort of drastic, violent change is the worst thing you can do.

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    197. DerpmindJanuary 28, 2012 at 8:22 AM

      @Somber
      "force the OOCness... of which I have done far too much"
      Uh... when? Everyone makes mistakes, sometimes infuriatingly big ones, but I really don't think there's ever been anything that can genuinely be called Out Of Character....ever. Remember Ch.16?

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    198. Random BlankJanuary 28, 2012 at 8:24 AM

      I remember the first incident: they tried bargaining. psychopathic overmare murdered them.
      The ponies are scared but not evil. There are very few evil ones. The overmare is evil. Kill the bitch before she even gets a sniff of your plans (damn simple, and you really don't need to tell anypony about your plan) and give the rest guidance - even under guise of "we had an incident, we MUST remain calm if we are to survive, I have everything under control now!" and - coul you tell me how could things get worse with the overmare dead?

      I mean, she doesn't keep personal bodyguards. She uses daily appliances, doors, terminals, bathrooms, everything that has one actual maintenance pony and one apprentice at most, so nobody to check if it wasn't sabotaged. Hundreds of ways to kill her. Most dictators have an army of guards that separates them from people they oppress. Here you pass by your overmare daily.

      And EVEN if the one who did it gets caught (after killing the overmare) and is executed, things are STILL bound to get better.

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    199. SomberJanuary 28, 2012 at 8:35 AM

      Pretty much. If Rivets had led a revolt the security ponies would have been on the side of the Overmare. Gin Rummey was a good mare, but very conservative and afraid that chaos would destroy the stable. As far as 99 was concerned, the alternative to the stable was death. She didn't do anything to Daisy's mom, even when she knew the abuse was happening. In that regards, she was a bad pony. Eseentially, only about two fifths of the stable, mostly the maintenance staff, supported Rivets. The rest of the stable was content. While life sucked, it sucked predictably. It wasn't until the invasion that they realized the Overmare was even more of threat.

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    200. Random BlankJanuary 28, 2012 at 8:39 AM

      Sindri, I see what you try to image: flags, battles, passwords, conspiracies, sneaking and politics.

      Nothing of that kind. No fighting your way to the office, no secret meetings, no gathering resources or building long-winded plans. No uprising, no fighting camps.

      One pony who decides enough is enough, the psycho must be stopped.

      Most preferably, mr. Sandman, or a sabotaged daily use appliance. Possibly a "botched" medical procedure or poisoned food. Whatever you do daily for the overmare, done in a way that kills her. No one-liners, no bargaining, no monologues.

      Do all the talking to the Chief of Security, over the dead body. See if she sees fit to sentence you to death or merely slaps on the wrist for criminal negligence.

      One pony doing one, discrete kill. Where is the difficulty you see in that? Where can this fail catastrophally? Only if the one pony intending to end this starts bragging about her plans. Not really difficult to avoid.

      The rebel may be killed, but still the one evil bastard will be dead and a rather decent pony like Gin Rummy will step in her shoes. Followed by a decent daughter - Blackjack - who hates the oppression and would slowly but surely dissolve the oppressive system.

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