@Crimson Valor True, the #2 one doesn't work, you would only accelerate until you get to the center of the moon, then you would loose speed until you get to the other side of the moon. Or something like that.
But wouldn't it be much faster to dig the hole from the light side of the moon? Digging from the dark side of the moon, while giving you plenty of time to sing Pink Floyd songs, would mean you'd have to walk all the way back around.
actually, because there's no air in space, Luna would leave the hole in the other side of the moon, but only achieve the same height she jumped in at. If there was air there would be a damping effect and she'd get stuck somewhere around the middle.
An anti-trollestia comic, now there's a first. Unfortunately the moons gravity isn't that and it's also rotating. Luna would have to time that really well to slingshot her self into Equestria's airspace.
Several things to help her with this is that she has wings and can push herself even faster down the slingshot tunnel.
Technically not since the moon is a sphere instead of a circle. It would be just like if you cored an apple, the apple would still stay intact just now there's a huge hole downing the middle.
actually, the second one might work. due to the fact that there is no air on the moon to slow you down you would exit the hole on the other side on the moon and reached the same height you jumped. how ever there is another force to account for. The strength of the earths gravity is stronger on the light side of the moon than it is on the dark side because your closer to earth (gravity dissipates with distance. thus you would achieve a HIGHER hight exiting on the light side. I've no clue how much higher but if you jumped high enough on the dark side you might end up breaking the moons gravity and get to earth.
Well, the problem with that is, the moon's gravity would reverse after passing the center, not to mention it acts upon you less and less as you approach the center, i.e. in the exact center of gravity you would be weightless because every part of the moon is pulling you in every direction, counteracting all the other forces. But hey, it's just troll science, it's supposed to be a logical fallacy. x3
the moons gravity would get less and less as you passed through and then get stronger as you pass the center and approach the light side this is true. and if no other force is taken into account luna would ocolate from one side of the moon to the other reaching the same height above surface on each side as her original jump.
however, the earths gravity would only get stronger as luna passed through he moon thus there would be lass total force pulling luna to the center of the moon as she exited the light side then there was when she was on the dark side. thus she would achieve a higher height above the surface on the light side than on the dark side. if the extra height is enough that the earths gravity is slightly stronger than he moon's at the top of her osculation on the light side of the moon she would break free and eventually reach earth.
@Anonymous Hey, you're right. It's not bad, the only weird thing is, the star ratings are different on the mobile version than on the desktop version. But other than that, quite useful.
Once Luna reached the core of the moon, the intense pressure of the moons gravity would probably crush her. Not to mention if she tried to go out the other side she would just be pulled down to the center of the moon again.
I'd like to correct my self. the gravity of the moon would get stronger and stronger as luna approached the center of the moon and weaker as she approached the surface again. no weaker to towards the center and stronger towards the surface like i previously said. however the end result is the same. luna would reach a higher point above the surface of the moon on the light side. and I'm under the assumption that if luna can survive the vacuum of space she can survive the large force of gravity pushing in on here from all sides at the center of the moon.
@Ryex So if what you're saying is correct, Luna would to do this for an excruciatingly long period of time during her banishment....so something like a thousand years o.O
nope, its a one shot. if the extra height isn't enough to break free then she would just go back and forth. she wouldn't get higher above the light side surface each time if that is what you were thinking.
@Anonymous (#2) following the same logic as above. if Luna can survive the vacuum of space, she could probably survive the huge force gravity would put on her body at the center of the moon, which means Luna could probably survive reentry to earth. suspension of disbelieve is required.
I'd just like to mention a few things, as I'm feeling inspired by watching the trolllogic magnet-car work on Scribblenauts. Luna is a pony. Luna is also an Alicorn, and rivals her sister in magic. She also has WINGS. Let's say the ceiling of the moon's "atmosphere" is as far from the moon as she can go. She's living with no food, no water, and no oxygen. On pure magic essentially. She can easily dig proposed hole, fly up, and bullet halfway down the hole. Between gravity and re-entering Earth's atmosphere, it's only up to her magic to slingshot through the other side, breaking past Celestia's barrier in a rainboom-esque (and magically bolstered) manner and surviving all the way to her big sister's porch. A living Kamehameha. She's got the power. Just my lazy 2cents.
Plus, she's a fucking Alicorn, she can make troll logic work. Nuff said.
misconceptions abound! she could go no higher than her original distance from center - assuming this polarized tunnel were possible (it isn't) the lack of an atmosphere would make the transfer of energy in and out of her relative motion very even, presumably 1:1. the only way for gravity to boost her speed is if she were already moving faster than escape velocity on a hyperbolic trajectory when she first entered the moon's gravitational field. no need for fancy GR differential equations - newtons laws of motions will suffice to calculate this (any takers?).
Assuming there was such a shaft running the length of the moon, if Luna just decided to hang around in the lunar core for whatever reason, she would not be crushed, she would be floating in pseudo-microgravity due to the (roughly) even distribution of mass around her, the weight of the surrounding lunar mass being borne by the walls of the shaft and not Luna herself.
Oooh! Looks like this is a job for physics! I like Ryex's idea of Luna falling through the Moon, and although she gains no net kinetic energy from the Moon's gravitational pull, she does fall the diameter of the Moon closer to the Earth and gains some kinetic energy from the gravitational pull of the Earth.
I liked the idea so much that I went through some rudimentary, back-of-the-envelope calculations to see if it would work. The calculations can be found here:
They aren't super complicated, and if you've taken physics in high school, you can probably follow along.
I found out that Luna would end up flying out of her Moon hole toward the Earth at about 137 m/s or about 300 miles per hour. However, to escape the gravitational pull of the Moon, she would need to be travelling at about 2381 m/s. So, unless Luna uses some srs magicks, she'd still be stuck on the Moon.
Also, even if she gained enough velocity to escape the moon, how would she control her direction and speed enough to not be vaporized in the atmosphere? Or simply skip off it, and careen into space?
Here's another problem with the "hole through the moon" plan: The moon both rotates and revolves.
Unless she were to dig a truly massive hole, (a BOTE calculation implies a 20km wide shaft for revolution alone), the moon would move enough during her trip that she would hit the side. There is a reason why this thought experiment always specifies a tunnel running between the poles.
lol Bloo played that prank call on Mr. Herriman in Fosters (kind of) but there was an actual imaginary friend that was a fridge and Herriman was scoldin' his ass
and yes I agree the phone looked like the one from Ed, ed,n eddy
except Celestia did't get pwned by the curse after picking up (HuffytheMagicDragon)
Eeyup. Things get hella complicated when you start considering all of the rotations and the fact that this would be better approximated by a (limited) three-body problem, not a series of two-body problems. For example, the escape velocity of the Moon varies quite a bit due to Earth's gravitational pull. Science is complicated! :P
Luna's method could actually work, in theory. Thanks to the planet's gravity, by the time Luna emerges at the other end of the tunnel, she would have gained in kinetic energy the difference in gravitational potential energy between the two sides of the moon. If that puts her beyond the escape velocity of the moon, she's home free.
ah well there you go, I knew that she would accelerate in total but not by how much. even simplifying the problem to it most basic level your still about 5000 mph too slow to escape the moon's gravity. Troll Science disproved! well done bronies!
Addendum/edit: use Newtonian gravitation: U(R) = M_Luna M_moon G R^-1. For the Earth-Moon system, assuming measurements posted on Wiki for the Earth & Moon, that the Moon is at apogee (giving the least difference in potential energy), and that her distance from the center of the moon is the same at both ends of the tunnel: Luna's velocity as she emerges on the near side of the moon would be a paltry ~130 m/s (using dU = M_Luna (U(R_farside)-U(R_nearside) = 1/2 M_Luna v^2). At perigee, her velocity would be only about 15 m/s more than that. Escape velocity on the moon is over a thousand times greater, so, for a realistic Earth-and-Moon-like system, it's not possible.
@Crimson Valor That's not true. The second one WOULD work. You're correct that it wouldn't work if she were an earth pony, but you forget that she has her own wings. It would seem to me that the diameter of the moon would give her plenty of time to accelerate past escape velocity under her own power, thus giving her the straightaway she needs to break the gravitational force of the moon.
@#1 ...who else thinks that Trollestia would take it one step further by bewitching a refrigerator to literally run after the pranksters, just to see how they react?
If her wings could give her enough lift to leave the moon, why wouldn't she just fly back? We've already shown that the hole would give her almost no appreciable acceleration due to gravity so if she can fly to escape velocity then the hole becomes pretty moot.
@T-God I love how you give a perfect, scientifically accurate description of what would happen (provided there is no atmosphere) and then just say "Or something like that."
@Anonymous Yeah, she'd totally get stuck, because she has no wings whatsoever.
@Anonymous @Display Name I can't believe you two fell for that. It was an obvious joke. A really funny one at that.
@Chakat Firepaw Actually, the moon always faces earth with the exact same side. So this tunnel WOULD go through the only rotational axis that matters.
@Strill I don't think you properly understand the concept of escape velocity. If she can just use her wings, she doesn't need the overly convoluted slingshot plan.
@Anonymous Actually, can we be sure of that? Those tiny wings cannot possibly be enough to lift a pony off the ground, there must be magic involved.
78 comments:
And how lame am I that I actually understand why the second one would not work?
I approve of these.
Welcome back to Everypony Hates Trollestia.
@Crimson Valor
Everyone should understand why it won't work. Gravity will keep her in the center and pulverize her.
@Crimson Valor
True, the #2 one doesn't work, you would only accelerate until you get to the center of the moon, then you would loose speed until you get to the other side of the moon.
Or something like that.
everyone should know why no trollscience should ever work; that much is obvious.
The first one made me laugh way too much.
We need more Luna TrollFaces :D
But wouldn't it be much faster to dig the hole from the light side of the moon? Digging from the dark side of the moon, while giving you plenty of time to sing Pink Floyd songs, would mean you'd have to walk all the way back around.
Number 1 was awesome. I kinda want to see Dash and Pinkie prank the princess and suffer some horrible, yet hilarious backlash now.
@NinesTempest
DAMN IT! I FORGOT! It's trollscience xD
FFFUUUUuuuuu...
Oh lord, the next time I get a prank call, I'm totally going to do what's in number 1.
Troll science luna ftw !
actually, because there's no air in space, Luna would leave the hole in the other side of the moon, but only achieve the same height she jumped in at. If there was air there would be a damping effect and she'd get stuck somewhere around the middle.
The only troll science that ever got me was the "pi = 4" one. Darn Calculus confusing us non-bright ponies
An anti-trollestia comic, now there's a first. Unfortunately the moons gravity isn't that and it's also rotating. Luna would have to time that really well to slingshot her self into Equestria's airspace.
Several things to help her with this is that she has wings and can push herself even faster down the slingshot tunnel.
But won't the two halves of the moon float away from each other?
@Homfrog
Technically not since the moon is a sphere instead of a circle. It would be just like if you cored an apple, the apple would still stay intact just now there's a huge hole downing the middle.
@Homfrog:
The Moon wasn't split in half, that's just a cross-section. If you notice the panel before it, there's absolutely no Moon-splitting involved.
It's troll science, everypony! -.0
actually, the second one might work. due to the fact that there is no air on the moon to slow you down you would exit the hole on the other side on the moon and reached the same height you jumped. how ever there is another force to account for. The strength of the earths gravity is stronger on the light side of the moon than it is on the dark side because your closer to earth (gravity dissipates with distance. thus you would achieve a HIGHER hight exiting on the light side. I've no clue how much higher but if you jumped high enough on the dark side you might end up breaking the moons gravity and get to earth.
Lol way to mess with gravity with Luna
In an unrelated note equestria daily now has a mobile version and its totally awesome!
ITT: People who don't understand gravity.
@Ryex
Well, the problem with that is, the moon's gravity would reverse after passing the center, not to mention it acts upon you less and less as you approach the center, i.e. in the exact center of gravity you would be weightless because every part of the moon is pulling you in every direction, counteracting all the other forces.
But hey, it's just troll science, it's supposed to be a logical fallacy. x3
Well, these succesfully made chuckle, too.
~Dark~
Since Luna is a de facto goddess, I can't imagine that the laws of gravity would apply if she wished to waive them.
@zZDarkMemoriesZz
the moons gravity would get less and less as you passed through and then get stronger as you pass the center and approach the light side this is true. and if no other force is taken into account luna would ocolate from one side of the moon to the other reaching the same height above surface on each side as her original jump.
however, the earths gravity would only get stronger as luna passed through he moon thus there would be lass total force pulling luna to the center of the moon as she exited the light side then there was when she was on the dark side. thus she would achieve a higher height above the surface on the light side than on the dark side. if the extra height is enough that the earths gravity is slightly stronger than he moon's at the top of her osculation on the light side of the moon she would break free and eventually reach earth.
@Anonymous
Hey, you're right. It's not bad, the only weird thing is, the star ratings are different on the mobile version than on the desktop version. But other than that, quite useful.
haha, good catch Ryex, Luna would in fact reach a bit higher altitude thenthe jumping off point
Once Luna reached the core of the moon, the intense pressure of the moons gravity would probably crush her. Not to mention if she tried to go out the other side she would just be pulled down to the center of the moon again.
That is why to troll science would not work.
People, this is troll science.
It absolutely would work because magnets.
@Display Name
Because, from a troll-science perspective, the hole it oriented downward toward Earth- as you can only fall downward and not upward.
couldnt Luna just fly back to equestia? she does have wings after all.
I'd like to correct my self. the gravity of the moon would get stronger and stronger as luna approached the center of the moon and weaker as she approached the surface again. no weaker to towards the center and stronger towards the surface like i previously said. however the end result is the same. luna would reach a higher point above the surface of the moon on the light side.
and I'm under the assumption that if luna can survive the vacuum of space she can survive the large force of gravity pushing in on here from all sides at the center of the moon.
Well, let us not forget that troll science also gave us the magnet hat: http://chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/memes-troll-dash-science.jpg
Celestia is truly the greatest troll ever.
@1: the 1800s called, they want their phone back!
I love the scientific discussion going on in this thread.
@Ryex
So if what you're saying is correct, Luna would to do this for an excruciatingly long period of time during her banishment....so something like a thousand years o.O
Even if this somehow worked (which it doesn't =D), Luna will still burn up as she hurtles through the Earth's atmosphere.
@Anonymous
nope, its a one shot. if the extra height isn't enough to break free then she would just go back and forth. she wouldn't get higher above the light side surface each time if that is what you were thinking.
@Anonymous (#2)
following the same logic as above. if Luna can survive the vacuum of space, she could probably survive the huge force gravity would put on her body at the center of the moon, which means Luna could probably survive reentry to earth. suspension of disbelieve is required.
Celestia (with trollface): I see it took you 1000 years to finish digging that hole.
#2 was my favorite out of the both. What a way to counter a prank call XD
I'd just like to mention a few things, as I'm feeling inspired by watching the trolllogic magnet-car work on Scribblenauts.
Luna is a pony. Luna is also an Alicorn, and rivals her sister in magic. She also has WINGS.
Let's say the ceiling of the moon's "atmosphere" is as far from the moon as she can go. She's living with no food, no water, and no oxygen. On pure magic essentially.
She can easily dig proposed hole, fly up, and bullet halfway down the hole. Between gravity and re-entering Earth's atmosphere, it's only up to her magic to slingshot through the other side, breaking past Celestia's barrier in a rainboom-esque (and magically bolstered) manner and surviving all the way to her big sister's porch. A living Kamehameha. She's got the power.
Just my lazy 2cents.
Plus, she's a fucking Alicorn, she can make troll logic work. Nuff said.
misconceptions abound! she could go no higher than her original distance from center - assuming this polarized tunnel were possible (it isn't) the lack of an atmosphere would make the transfer of energy in and out of her relative motion very even, presumably 1:1. the only way for gravity to boost her speed is if she were already moving faster than escape velocity on a hyperbolic trajectory when she first entered the moon's gravitational field. no need for fancy GR differential equations - newtons laws of motions will suffice to calculate this (any takers?).
#1 made me lol like weird :D
Crushing gravity at the centre of the moon?
WHAT?!
Assuming there was such a shaft running the length of the moon, if Luna just decided to hang around in the lunar core for whatever reason, she would not be crushed, she would be floating in pseudo-microgravity due to the (roughly) even distribution of mass around her, the weight of the surrounding lunar mass being borne by the walls of the shaft and not Luna herself.
The phone in comic 1 reminds me of the one in Ed, Edd'n Eddy.
The Game...
Comic 2 reminds me of Mario Galaxy
Trollestia's expression at the end of the first comic is classic.
@AnonymousThank you, I'm glad I'm not the only one to realize that.
Oooh! Looks like this is a job for physics! I like Ryex's idea of Luna falling through the Moon, and although she gains no net kinetic energy from the Moon's gravitational pull, she does fall the diameter of the Moon closer to the Earth and gains some kinetic energy from the gravitational pull of the Earth.
I liked the idea so much that I went through some rudimentary, back-of-the-envelope calculations to see if it would work. The calculations can be found here:
http://f.cl.ly/items/2L3M090B460f2e1v1K0u/lunaMoonCalc.png
They aren't super complicated, and if you've taken physics in high school, you can probably follow along.
I found out that Luna would end up flying out of her Moon hole toward the Earth at about 137 m/s or about 300 miles per hour. However, to escape the gravitational pull of the Moon, she would need to be travelling at about 2381 m/s. So, unless Luna uses some srs magicks, she'd still be stuck on the Moon.
Also, even if she gained enough velocity to escape the moon, how would she control her direction and speed enough to not be vaporized in the atmosphere? Or simply skip off it, and careen into space?
Luna would probably get stuck in the middle of the moon because it'd be kinda hard to come back out. :L [Or dig straight up, if she keeps going.]
Here's another problem with the "hole through the moon" plan: The moon both rotates and revolves.
Unless she were to dig a truly massive hole, (a BOTE calculation implies a 20km wide shaft for revolution alone), the moon would move enough during her trip that she would hit the side. There is a reason why this thought experiment always specifies a tunnel running between the poles.
lol Bloo played that prank call on Mr. Herriman in Fosters (kind of) but there was an actual imaginary friend that was a fridge and Herriman was scoldin' his ass
and yes I agree the phone looked like the one from Ed, ed,n eddy
except Celestia did't get pwned by the curse after picking up
(HuffytheMagicDragon)
everyone here is complete fail, this would in fact work if you timed it correctly with the moons rotation
@Chakat Firepaw
Eeyup. Things get hella complicated when you start considering all of the rotations and the fact that this would be better approximated by a (limited) three-body problem, not a series of two-body problems. For example, the escape velocity of the Moon varies quite a bit due to Earth's gravitational pull. Science is complicated! :P
The first one is awesome but the second one made me LOSE THE GAME. DAMN YOU, LUNA!
you know she has wings, she could just fly back. the moon os only 1/4 the size of earth so getting out of the moons gravity field would be super easy
Luna's method could actually work, in theory. Thanks to the planet's gravity, by the time Luna emerges at the other end of the tunnel, she would have gained in kinetic energy the difference in gravitational potential energy between the two sides of the moon. If that puts her beyond the escape velocity of the moon, she's home free.
@Pinkie Guy
ah well there you go, I knew that she would accelerate in total but not by how much. even simplifying the problem to it most basic level your still about 5000 mph too slow to escape the moon's gravity. Troll Science disproved! well done bronies!
Trolluna strikes again.
@Above anon: Except the moon practically has no atmosphere at all.
Addendum/edit: use Newtonian gravitation: U(R) = M_Luna M_moon G R^-1. For the Earth-Moon system, assuming measurements posted on Wiki for the Earth & Moon, that the Moon is at apogee (giving the least difference in potential energy), and that her distance from the center of the moon is the same at both ends of the tunnel: Luna's velocity as she emerges on the near side of the moon would be a paltry ~130 m/s (using dU = M_Luna (U(R_farside)-U(R_nearside) = 1/2 M_Luna v^2). At perigee, her velocity would be only about 15 m/s more than that. Escape velocity on the moon is over a thousand times greater, so, for a realistic Earth-and-Moon-like system, it's not possible.
This reminds me of a famous quote by Groucho Cutey-Marx.
"Outside of a dog, a book is pony's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read."
Dr. Robotnik did it first.
I don't think the conservation of energy principle applies to Luna.
@Crimson Valor That's not true. The second one WOULD work. You're correct that it wouldn't work if she were an earth pony, but you forget that she has her own wings. It would seem to me that the diameter of the moon would give her plenty of time to accelerate past escape velocity under her own power, thus giving her the straightaway she needs to break the gravitational force of the moon.
XD
Trollestia is my hero.
Why do I get the feeling Celestia has actually been sat next to that phone just waiting for that to happen.
AND IF YOUR HEAD EXPLODES WITH DARK FOREBODINGS TOO
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
@Strill Wings don't work in vacuum, they need to push against air.
Can we just say 'magic did it'
@#1 ...who else thinks that Trollestia would take it one step further by bewitching a refrigerator to literally run after the pranksters, just to see how they react?
@Strill
If her wings could give her enough lift to leave the moon, why wouldn't she just fly back? We've already shown that the hole would give her almost no appreciable acceleration due to gravity so if she can fly to escape velocity then the hole becomes pretty moot.
I lost the game...XD
I tried not to laugh while looking at Rainbow Dash's straight face in #1 while listening to Bon Jovi... and damn was that impossible.
@T-God
I love how you give a perfect, scientifically accurate description of what would happen (provided there is no atmosphere) and then just say "Or something like that."
@Anonymous
Yeah, she'd totally get stuck, because she has no wings whatsoever.
@Anonymous
@Display Name
I can't believe you two fell for that. It was an obvious joke. A really funny one at that.
@Ryex
Orbit neutralizes terran gravity well.
@Filiecs
There is so much wrong with that comment I don't even know where to start.
@Anonymous
In this comic? Yes.
But she was actually imprisoned IN the moon, not ON the moon. She was also not Luna, but Nightmare Moon.
@Pinkie Guy
Wouldn't the extra energy go into her orbital velocity, crashing her into the sides of the tunnel?
@Darkhawk1
Skip off it? Seriously?
@Chakat Firepaw
Actually, the moon always faces earth with the exact same side. So this tunnel WOULD go through the only rotational axis that matters.
@Strill
I don't think you properly understand the concept of escape velocity.
If she can just use her wings, she doesn't need the overly convoluted slingshot plan.
@Anonymous
Actually, can we be sure of that? Those tiny wings cannot possibly be enough to lift a pony off the ground, there must be magic involved.
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